Brown Lloyd Green guitar?

Jack Musgrave · Post by **Jack Musgrave** » 10 Nov 2005 6:33 pm

I had never seen one before with a walnut factory finish, but it looks original. Is this color authentic from the factory? you all are going to be sick, but I bought this guitar in a pawn shop today for under $xxx dollars.I could not fill in the x's, I just feel too darned guilty

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 10 Nov 2005 6:35 pm

Sometimes the green stain turns brown from sustained exposure to sunlight.

Cliff Kane · Post by **Cliff Kane** » 10 Nov 2005 8:15 pm

Here's the color of my LDG. I think it's a middle year model: it has the narrow pedal and straight knee levers, but it has the claw peghead.

It sounds like you got an excellent deal, congrats! I love mine.

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 10 Nov 2005 8:51 pm

I've seen a couple of brown LDG's before. I think Sho-Bud pretty much always offered a custom stain option. A friend of mine in PA has an awesome '73 red SD12 with a metal neck.

Rick Kornacker · Post by **Rick Kornacker** » 10 Nov 2005 9:18 pm

Hey Jack!
Yes..there are some. As a matter of fact, Lloyd Green himself had a brown LDG in the early '80's, which he played at Scotty's. I remember him saying "maybe now I should change my name to Lloyd Brown with this new guitar" and that he was still getting familiar with it. Needless to say, he played his butt off, as usual!RK

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Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 10 Nov 2005 10:52 pm

Rick; the only LDG Model Lloyd has ever had was his Green one he plays today. Lloyd Did play a brown JCH for a while; but the LDG Model has always been the green one he got in 1973; that started the LDG model Sho-bud.
Now; Paul Franklin Sr. was part of Sho-bud in that he usually did the LDG with "SP" under the logo; with indicates "special paint" and those were custom ordered Sho-buds.
Yes true; many of the old Green ones have weathered to a brownish and somewhere inbetween look....>but All LDG's that said Model underneath that logo; were Green.
Ricky

Fred Jack · Post by **Fred Jack** » 11 Nov 2005 12:52 am

I had a LDG made in 74-75 and it was charcoal gray. Purty thing it was.I have often wondered where it is.I think Herby Remington sold it for me in 80-81.I wish I had all the guitars I've had.I could retire quite nicely! Fred

Clyde Lane · Post by **Clyde Lane** » 11 Nov 2005 4:10 am

I went to the Sho-Bud factory in 1978 to pickup mine. Duane Marrs pointed out a rack and said pick out one. There were about 25 LDGs of all different colors and at that time different body sizes and key heads on that rack. I think by that time they all had the Super Pro undercarriage. I picked out a beautiful red big body. Still have it. Note: It don't have the "SP" under the logo.
Clyde Lane[This message was edited by Clyde Lane on 11 November 2005 at 04:15 AM.][This message was edited by Clyde Lane on 11 November 2005 at 04:16 AM.]

Mike Sweeney · Post by **Mike Sweeney** » 11 Nov 2005 6:29 am

Ricky,

You need to check your facts on the guitars of Lloyd Green. Lloyd DID have a walnut stained LDG with aluminum an aluminum neck. If you think that Rick or myself is lying to you, ask Lloyd yourself.

Mike

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 11 Nov 2005 6:37 am

Jack Musgrave · Post by **Jack Musgrave** » 11 Nov 2005 8:25 am

Hey, this is getting kind of interesting, maybe I accidentally stumbled on to something here. BTW, mine has the narrow pedals, grover tuners, and raised fret board like the one Richard has pictured. Mine does not have the sp under the logo. I am going to remove the pad and key head to restore the guitar a bit, If it was ever green, there should be signs of it under parts that never received an sunlight

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 11 Nov 2005 8:30 am

This just in from Lloyd Green; which will clarify what I spoke of> "The Real LDG".
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
After I came up with the padded model Sho-Bud, which initially was to be only for my personal studio use, and requests started coming in to Sho-Bud for a guitar built like mine, the picture suddenly changed.
Early on I had suggested this might be a commercially viable instrument for Sho-Bud to fill the gap between a pure single neck and a double neck. Shot's and David's first response was that this was a looney idea, that is, until they started getting all those folks wanting one. Suddenly it was a brilliant idea! I was back in the fold.
In my contract signed with Sho-Bud in 1973 outlining royalty amount per guitar sold, design, color, etc. it is clearly stated that all LDGs (David Jackson's and my appellation) will (would) be of a dark green color. For those who wanted the LDG model, but in a different color, an additional two letters would be added under the "LDG"; SP. SP stands for special paint, nothing more. I would still receive royalties but the color could be any choice.
There were, indeed, 25 to 30 LDGs built at a time and there may have been a few mixed colors of special orders among them, but all LDGs not green would have been labeled SP.
Now, there are a number of counterfeit LDGs of various colors out there that were built after Fred Gretsch acquired Sho-Bud from the Baldwin corporation. Counterfeit being any that weren't built by the Gretsch Corp. And lawsuits were threatened by Fred although to my knowledge none were ever filed.
If an LDG is of a color other than dark green (not counting the ones which have grotesquely faded from repeated sunlight exposure or guitars that have been repainted a different color and had the LDG re-added) and doesn't have SP under the logo.....they are counterfeits. By the way, any LDG decal that can be flaked or peeled off is also a fake since all legitimate decals were under the finish.
Sometime in the mid 1980s I saw a beautiful Walnut LDG with a medal neck insert sitting on the floor at Bobbe Seymore's store. I played it for a little while and commented to Bobbe how I loved the color and thought the tone might be ok. Without another word he picked up the phone, called Fred Gretsch who now owned Sho-Bud, and told him of our conversation. Fred told him to give me the steel and send him the invoice for payment. I never asked for the steel but I sure as hell took it when offered since I had only had 4 Sho-Buds in my entire career.
I did use it one year in St. Louis and made the statement attributed to me, and I took it to many sessions trying to get used to the sound. But by then Sho-Bud was a different creature, sounding little like the ones I was used to playing. I soon returned to my LDG #1 which I would never part with, and played that for most of the remainder of my "first" session career that ended in 1988.
In 1988 I traded that beautiful, but tone flawed Walnut color steel to Jimmy Crawford, in return for which he built the JCH I played for the ensuing 15 years. I didn't start playing the #1 LDG again until about 3 years ago when I returned to sessions.
I hope this clarifies some of the murkiness surrounding this topic.

Lloyd Green
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ricky[This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 11 November 2005 at 08:46 AM.]

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 11 Nov 2005 8:57 am

Back when I lived in SoCal a friend of mine (Ross Coan) bought a special order LDG from Blackie Taylor's music which was a "12" string mind you with an aluminum neck, natural blond finish, and 6 or 7 pedals. It was the best looking 'bud I'd ever seen and I wanted it so bad but I couldn't afford a guitar like that at the time.... I think I'll check with Blackie to see if Ross's still got that guitar...JH in Va.

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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!

Cliff Kane · Post by **Cliff Kane** » 11 Nov 2005 9:24 am

Bought from the original owner, original finish. Model number: 6150. Serial number: 13043.

Jack Musgrave · Post by **Jack Musgrave** » 11 Nov 2005 9:25 am

I just finished removing the padded arm rest from this guitar, and guess what, that finish is some of the prettiest I have ever seen. the color GREEN. I would have never believed it. I guess I will be restoring it back to its original color at some point. are the decals still availible for these guitars?

Clyde Lane · Post by **Clyde Lane** » 11 Nov 2005 9:35 am

How can a guitar be counterfeit when you pick it up in the factory. Does this just mean that Lloyd was cheated out of his royalty on my guitar?

I don't know how to post pictures but there is a picture of mine on the steelers mugshots site.
Clyde Lane

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 11 Nov 2005 9:48 am

Also>
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
Yes, the Walnut steel had SP in the appropriate place, and was under
the
finish.
The only significant record I played that steel on and sounded really
good
was my solo on John Conlee's 1986 Columbia record, "The Carpenter."
Other than that one, I couldn't beg, borrow or steal (steel?) a good
tone from it.
Lloyd G.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 11 Nov 2005 11:59 am

Clyde, there are some letters under the LDG logo on your mugshot. Does it say SP?

Clyde Lane · Post by **Clyde Lane** » 11 Nov 2005 12:40 pm

Peter that is just the word "model". As I said in the earlier post, I picked it out of a rack of about 25 guitars. It didn't have strings or pull rods installed (I don't think any in the rack did). Duane asked how I wanted it set up and they put strings and all the pull rods on and had it in a playable condition in a very short time. There was a very pretty blue LDG that I come close to chosing in the rack along
with at least one black and several green. I don't recall if any of the odd colors had the "SP" or not. I know mine don't.
Clyde Lane

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 11 Nov 2005 11:23 pm

Why don't you ask Duane wha~hapon?

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“Big John” Bechtel
’04 SD–10 Black Derby w/3 & 5 & Pad
’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15” Eminence
web site

Rick Kornacker · Post by **Rick Kornacker** » 12 Nov 2005 10:48 am

Thanks Lloyd and Mike for getting to the bottom of this. It's surely nice to have these lines of communication. And Ricky...I am not in the habit of making reckless statements, even about things that are not that serious. I only felt compelled to post on this topic because I happened to be at Scotty's that year and I remember that which Lloyd so graciously acknowledged.I humbly and appreciatingly would like to say that because of my background I have had many opportunities to be around a lot of our great players at venues and more personal "events" over the years which I cherish as a part of my playing career.Regards to all, RK

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 12 Nov 2005 11:32 am

Yes Rick; I certainly understand and would never think you would make a reckless statement. However; sometimes my communication gets distorted by legistics; in that; Lloyd has still only had the one LDG "Model"; as he states that brown LDG certainly had the "SP" on it; therefore it was not an authentic "LDG MODEL". Sorry for being a diehard detailed fanatic; but Lloyd agrees and I will go to my grave saying that a REAL Sho-bud LDG that my friend Lloyd Green endorses is "Green"(or was green...ha) and says "LDG MODEL" and is a water decal under the lacquer; and anything else is not endorsed by Lloyd Green and therefore; to me, is not a original LDG as it was conceived to be> eventhough it is a LDG(ha...does that make any sense at all??ha..maybe/maybe not; but I know what I mean..ha.).
Sure they're all cool and look great and may or may not sound good and I don't put down a steel guitar unless I've actually played a particular one; so I'm not putting down anyone's particular steel> If they/you like it; than that's all that matters.
I just wanted to state what the original conception of the real LDG was and is and was supposed to be; eventhough many differences transpired through the years of Sho-bud> which was perfectly normal for Sho-bud...ha.
As you and all can tell; it is my quest until I breath no longer; to respect the legacy of all aspects of Lloyd Green; who has given me sooooo much and I owe that to this great man that has given everyone his heart and soul in Music and the world of steel guitar.

Ricky

Kenny Drake · Post by **Kenny Drake** » 13 Nov 2005 6:05 pm

Great Topic and interesting responses. I've played a few off-color (sic) LDGs and wouldn't trade my original 75 green LDG for all of them I've ever seen. I bought it new. It's my oldest pedal steel and it's still my favorite - hands down -for tone, and for all the other reasons we get so attached to these fine instruments. Thanks to Lloyd Green and Ricky Davis for weighing in on this one.
This Forum is too cool.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 13 Nov 2005 7:02 pm

This just goes to show you what a great forum that we have here. A question was asked and was answered by Lloyd himself. These are very valuable discussions. Legitimate questions with expert answers by the top players. We have a gold mine here.

Steve Dodson · Post by **Steve Dodson** » 14 Nov 2005 10:42 pm

Yes Kevin, I agree. The only thing I don't understand is why Lloyd don't post this info himself. He could do so and have his e-mail blocked like Buddy and Weldon and so does Paul.[This message was edited by Steve Dodson on 15 November 2005 at 09:28 AM.]