Buzzing strings

Tim Lane · Post by **Tim Lane** » 1 Sep 2005 8:55 pm

I recently bought a PSG and notice that unless I press fairly hard with the bar, that I get occasional string buzz. When played open the strings are fine. Why would this happen? Bad technique? Bad setup? I won't mention the brand of PSG until I know if this is a real problem or not but it is a high end, supposedly high quality PSG.

Mark Herrick · Post by **Mark Herrick** » 1 Sep 2005 9:06 pm

Probably because the rollers at the nut don't allow the tops of all the strings to line up straight. (The reason some people like to use gauged rollers.) The higher you move the bar up the neck the less noticeable it should be. When you play near the lower frets you have to use a little more pressure to eliminate the buzz.

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Tim Lane · Post by **Tim Lane** » 2 Sep 2005 4:42 pm

Yes that is the case. It plays fine up the neck, but the lower I go the worse it gets. Is there anything simple I can do to the guitar to cure this? It's really gettin on my nerves. My previous PSG wasn't near this bad. And this was twice the money.

Jim Bates · Post by **Jim Bates** » 2 Sep 2005 5:35 pm

On the buzzing string, turn the roller about a quarter turn, and put a drop of light oil (3-in-one, or sewing machine oil) on the axel on each side of that roller. That has worked for me many times.

In case you might be getting some buzzing from the bridge area, remove the string and polish out any fine scratches on the bridge finger (that can cause a 'sitar' effect). I use emory cloth followed by simichrome polish.

Thanx,
Jim

Mark Herrick · Post by **Mark Herrick** » 4 Sep 2005 6:02 pm

You could pull the roller nut off and examine all the rollers to see if they are all cut to the same depth. If not, you could arrange them so that the deeper cut ones are on the bigger strings and the shallower cut ones on the smaller strings. That might help even out the differences...

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Nic du Toit · Post by **Nic du Toit** » 5 Sep 2005 1:59 am

Mike's advice sounds to be the one to go for.
It is best just to get use to the many quirks of the PSG; just play the bugger.

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Tim Lane · Post by **Tim Lane** » 5 Sep 2005 7:48 am

I going to try Marks suggestion and make sure to rollers are are set with the deepest cut ones on the right string. I really appreciate the advice guys. I think also part of my problem is the I'm plucking the strings a little hard. But even when I'm playing lightly string 6 buzzes some.

Tim

Tim Lane · Post by **Tim Lane** » 11 Sep 2005 6:57 pm

Ok, I've tried pretty much everything and still buzzes slightly. Would Gauged rollers be the way to go? I can lay the bar across all 10 strings and push down normally and there will always be a slight buzz on one or two strings.If so where can I get them and how much do they cost. All the buzz is at the nut. Am I just to picky? Is there always going to be a slight occasional buzz? I just a newbie, but I sure appreciate everyones input past and future!

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Better to keep your mouth shut and let 'em think you're stupid that to speak and remove all doubt.
Rains SD10, Fender Strat, Martin HD28V, Martin SPJC16E, Alvarez RB30C Acoustic Bass[This message was edited by Tim Lane on 11 September 2005 at 07:57 PM.]

Rick Nicklas · Post by **Rick Nicklas** » 11 Sep 2005 7:21 pm

I would call the maker immediately and explain the problem. They should offer a solution or offer to fix it. It's enough for your mind to keep focused on the music without having a constant irritation like that.

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 11 Sep 2005 8:03 pm

Since you don't see to mention the brand of steel...email me what guage strings you have on it and what brand steel it is...and I'll help/fix your problem.
Ricky

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 12 Sep 2005 3:43 am

also..what is the weight of your Bar ?

you know the routine..
lighter vs heavier...='s.....

just play the bugger...

you'll end up in a nut house if ya try to conquer all the idiosyncracies..

and you won't be alone....

t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 12 September 2005 at 04:46 AM.]

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 12 Sep 2005 4:03 am

My highly regarded brand guitar does not have gauged rollers and I don't get any buzz.

Left hand technique has a lot to do with it.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 12 Sep 2005 10:26 am

I was experiencing the same problem a while back until I realized that I was pushing down too hard behind the bar. I was putting more pressure on the strings with the rest of my hand than I was the bar. Because of this, the bar wasn't in proper contact with the strings. Once I watched for that, the buzzing went away and tone improved. There seems to be a fine line between applying too much and not enough pressure with the left hand, especially when it comes to the fingers behind the bar.

Like yourself, I noticed it more when I was down in the lower frets.

Tim Lane · Post by **Tim Lane** » 12 Sep 2005 3:49 pm

Chris,

I noticed the same thing when I was experimenting trying to different ways to push on the strings, but that's not it. When I just lay the bar down on the strings without making contact with my hand I have to press pretty hard to eliminate the buzz.
My bar is a 7/8 inch dunlop.
I wanted to check with you guys before I call the maker and have him make a fool of me for doing something wrong or makin an easy fix.
You guys are great!!
Tim

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 12 Sep 2005 5:07 pm

Tim, buzzing is caused both by mechanical problems or by faulty technique. Normally, the buzzing is worse on the first couple of frets, and reduces significantly on the higher frets. I'd advise you to have someone else play your guitar, and see if they have the same problem, that would tell you if it's mechanical or your technique that's at fault. Some simple problems (like incorrect string guages) can exacerbate the buzzing problem, and a good player would notice that right away. Also, keep in mind that buzzing due to string height problems is usually worse on 12-string guitars.

Many players today are far more critical about string height differences. In the old days, we just learned how to modify our technique to reduce the problem. Unless the problem is caused by loose rollers, or grooves in the tops of the fingers (bridge), it can normally be solved with proper technique...and practice.

I'd venture to guess that, since you said it was a "high end" quality guitar, the problem is with your technique

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 12 Sep 2005 7:06 pm

What Donny says !

Bob

Kirk Hamre · Post by **Kirk Hamre** » 12 Sep 2005 7:18 pm

Tim,
Do yourself a big favor, throw the Dunlop bar in the scrap steel recyling can and buy yourself a BJS Bar. I just made the change from Dunlop to BJS last week and I am very pleased. The Dunlop bar dragged across the strings while the BJS glides across the strings, no chrome scrathing off, and great tone. $60.00 investment, but well worth it. We pay thousands for our guitars, why use a cheap bar? I bought some Fret Fast for the strings as well which makes playing even more enjoyable.

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2001 Emmons Lashley LeGrande II, Model LST10L, E9th Single 10 String on a Double Frame with pad, 3 Pedals, 5 Knees, RKR is a double stop. 2005 Peavey Nashville 1000 Amp. Boss GE-7 Equalizer. Sho Bud Volume Pedal. BJS Bar.

Fred Nolen · Post by **Fred Nolen** » 13 Sep 2005 2:31 am

Tim,

Rick Nicklas gave some good advice. If you're are still having the problem call the maker. You'll be glad you did.

Ol' Fred

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 13 Sep 2005 9:25 am

If you do a search on gauged rollers or gauged nut rollers you will find many threads on this problem. Some top manufacturers, such as Zum, Emmons and MSA use gauged rollers. Others don't. Most people do not notice the problem with an S10 or D10. A 10-string E9 doesn't have very big strings, and on C6, which does have big strings, you don't use the C# fret much. The biggest problem arises with E9/B6 or other 12-strings, because they have very big strings on the bottom, and the F fret (Bb with he pedals down) is used frequently.

It's not in your head, and it's not your technique. It's a design flaw some manufacturers pawn off on players to save a few pennies. Even the cheapest 6-string guitars have gauged grooves in the nut to accomodate the different string guages. There is no excuse for this flaw. If this bothers you, I would complain to the manufacturer. You will not get any help whatsoever, but if no one complains, they will never fix the problem in the future. Frankly, you should not be ashamed to ask for your money back, so you can buy from a manufacturer who takes care of these playability details with care. [This message was edited by David Doggett on 13 September 2005 at 10:33 AM.]

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 13 Sep 2005 12:08 pm

Dave D, never buy a Franklin, they do not have gauged rollers and they do not for specific reasons. How many Franklin owners do you hear complaining about buzzing? (none that I can remember posting here on the forum).

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 13 Sep 2005 12:23 pm

I have been playing for 50 years. If I hear a buzz, I press the bar down on the strings.
I never stopped to worry about it. If you do,indeed,have a mechanical problem, fix it. If my guitar had a problem I would probably never notice it. There are so many corrections to make when playing steel that this seems like the least of my problems.

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www.phelpscountychoppers.com/steelguitar

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 13 Sep 2005 1:06 pm

How many Franklin owners do you hear complaining about buzzing? (none that I can remember posting here on the forum).

It bothers me on my Franklin. Paul Franklin Sr. got nearly everything right in his guitars, but this is one area where I disagree with him.
It's worse on my guitar because mine is 12 string ext E9. On normal 10 string E9 each string is about .004" different from the next, so the tops are very nearly in a line.
I suspect that most players don't notice it much on C6 because they don't play much at the first fret.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 13 Sep 2005 1:32 pm

I stand (or sit) corrected. I now know of one.

Paul (Sr) gave me a very lengthy dissertation on why and what gauge roller he uses.

Tim Lane · Post by **Tim Lane** » 13 Sep 2005 1:37 pm

Don't know if you guys ever heard of this or not, but I just found the problem. The buzz was coming from a rod on the changer that was buzzing. I changed the string, put my finger on it and it was still buzzing (string #6) Finally started messing with rods and just jiggled 'em and it stopped. The rest of my buzz was technique problems which I'm ironing out. Thanks so much for everyones help!!!!! You guys are the best!

Tim

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 13 Sep 2005 3:51 pm

Well, there you go, Tim. There are many things that can cause a buzz, some fixable, some not.

I would venture a wager that none of those above who say they are not bothered by 1st fret rattle play a 12-string. I too never noticed the problem when I played a 10-string. If a Franklin doesn't have gauged rollers, I can cross that one off the list I would buy a 12-string from. However, I would be very interested in Paul Srs. reasoning. Did he feel it was too difficult a problem that wasn't worth the effort? Or does he know of some technical problems that gauged rollers cause (hard to imagine what, but then, he would know if anyone would)? Whatever his reasons, they don't seem to have been good enough for the several other manufacturers who successfully provide gauged rollers on their guitars.