Where should country music have gone?

[Dustin Rhodes]

I'm younger than most here (32) and get the feeling in some talks about country music that there are those like me who feel that country today is awful but did need room to grow, and those who feel that country today is awful and should have never changed.

My question is where should country music have gone in your mind? Post video clips of stuff you think represents good evolutions of country.

[Mark Hershey]

The answer that really matters is whatever you think is good.

IMO Sturgill Simpson took the artform in the right direction on his second album. Great modern sounds meets traditional music.

[Mitch Drumm]

there are those like me who feel that country today is awful but did need room to grow, and those who feel that country today is awful and should have never changed.

I'm not sure what "did need room to grow" means.

Do you use "grow" to imply "progress" rather than "regression"--or do you simply mean "change"?

I'd say those 2 categories, as written, are a distinction without a meaningful difference.

Both agree that country music today is awful.

What person alive believes that "country music" would not change?

Given a choice, would anyone listen to stuff they don't like rather than stuff they do like? Who doesn't have that choice?

Regarding "My question is where should country music have gone in your mind?"-----I'm perfectly fine with where it went.

I hate it, but I'm not required to listen to it and don't. I also hate coconut and beets, but that causes me no issues either.

For practical purposes, "country music" didn't go anywhere. I'm a listener, not a maker. I don't much care what is played in live performances--let alone on the radio.

It's far easier for me to avoid what I don't like now than it was 50 years ago. On a whim, I could listen to nothing but Ralph Mooney or Joaquin Murphey or T. Texas Tyler indefinitely.

Regarding working musicians: I do marvel at how semi-pro and pros can continually play stuff they would never voluntarily listen to at home. I'm not sure I can recall a case where a guy said "I quit" because he couldn't stand the style of music he was asked to play. It's always some other reason--I'm getting old, it's a bad financial proposition, I don't like the smoke or the creeps I have to associate with, etc.

[Joachim Kettner]

I like it with strings, you really can't change the formula.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCTWZ3_rFlE

[Dustin Rhodes]

The answer that really matters is whatever you think is good.

IMO Sturgill Simpson took the artform in the right direction on his second album. Great modern sounds meets traditional music.

I'm conflicted with him because I like some of his music but don't really care for what I've seen of him.

[Joachim Kettner]

And what do you think of Teddy?

[Dustin Rhodes]

And what do you think of Teddy?

Not super familiar with him but like his dad he seems much more aligned with folk music than country.

[Joachim Kettner]

True. Richard with some Country Rock:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3WxZu7okY0

[Larry Welter]

lets re-invent and call it "County Music" when ever I played out people would tell me I belong on the stage,,(next one otta town)...........

[Bill McCloskey]

A good parallel in my mind is what has happened to Bluegrass. Personally I think Bluegrass is more exciting and interesting today than it has ever been. The past is still respected and played by growing numbers of people, but it has expanded into newgrass, jamgrass, there have been mutations into jazz cross over.

Musicians such as Jerry Douglas have taken the music and virtuosity into all sorts of areas, including jazz, irish, maintaining not only a cutting edge bluegrass/jazz fusion band, but a traditional band to honor Flatt and scruggs.

Rob Ickes has also delved into jazz, while maintaining his traditional roots, Andy Hall is a graduate of Berklee school of music.

To me it is a perfect blend of the new and the old, the tradition and the experimental, and all of it exciting as hell, with ever increasing virtuosity.

So why has bluegrass not had country music's fate?

Perhaps because it has never been a "popular" music form in that there are a lot of radio stations playing it, it has always been a bit underground and outside. Maybe that is why it has been allowed to evolve while maintaining its roots: it never had to follow a radio station format, or a record labels ideas on what a hit is. Bluegrass never lived and died by hits.

So perhaps country music is a victim of it's own popular success.

[Jim Cohen]

Bluegrass never lived and died by hits.

Probably true, but it sure did get a new lease on life with "Dueling Banjos" (Deliverance)

[Bill McCloskey]

Ha. let's see it got that boost 46 years ago. That is quite a boost.

I think Oh brother where art thou helped quite a bit, and I think Will the Circle Be Unbroken with the Nitty Gritty Dirt band set it on a very healthy cross over path.

Plus Bluegrass is highly improvisational which I think made it made it, and makes it more exciting than playing the same song, just like the record, in 3 minute chunks over and over again, decade after decade

[Dave Mudgett]

... there are those like me who feel that country today is awful but did need room to grow, and those who feel that country today is awful and should have never changed.

I can relate to that sentiment, and I'm with the idea that country (and most popular music, as of, let's say, the last 10-20 years) needed room to grow. At a certain point, a particular approach just runs its course and needs fresh blood and new ideas to keep it moving. But the money machine just wants to cram out the same old pattern until the well runs dry, and then discards it and its audience, in search of fresh meat.

To me, the main word that describes what is missing from most modern mainstream popular music is authenticity. Accepting a connection to the past, but not just wallowing in it - which implies a willingness to intelligently absorb new ideas that fit. So maybe that's another thing I think is increasingly missing - intelligence. I just find most mainstream pop (of any kind) hard to take seriously in any way. I don't mean that music or musicians should take themselves seriously. To the contrary, I think a lot of music takes itself way more seriously than its content merits.

To me, what always worked about what I viewed as the good country music was that it was, musically and lyrically, a personal experience about real people. Straightforward, clear, [ed]heartfelt lyrical and musical ideas, with a general absence of contrived bullshit. There are lots of ways to express this, and I like the fact that other styles like blues, rock, and jazz can filter into modern music without constant protest. And in fact, I've always like many styles of music that had that authenticity. And there are some people out there doing it, and maybe at some point some of it will catch on. But I'd never know that to turn on a radio. To me, it's all about advertising demographics - they don't give a damn about anybody but certain target age/gender/ethnicity/etc. groups.

But like Mitch, I don't get too worked up about it. I can listen to anything I want. Anything from any style or time period, any time I please.

So perhaps country music is a victim of its own popular success.

Yes, there's that too. We've discussed that many times over the years here. Mainstream country has, for some time, had an expectation that it can draw a large audience. Maybe not so much 50-60 years ago in what is often termed the "golden age". But for the last 30-40, definitely. Nothing so tough to satisfy as high expectations.

[Bob Bestor]

Country music is still going places. Popular country is just one branch. I'm headed to to see Marty Stuart tomorrow night and in messing around on youtube, getting myself lathered up for the show, came across two acts entirely new to me that on first view I really like. Great new country music is out there, you just have to hunt for it. Neither of these clips are straight up, classic country, but the influences are there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7xPpYBa6pg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGC0NyuJEiw

[Bill McCloskey]

Bob, some of that stuff reminded me of what you'd hear in dozens of bars in Austin back in the early 80's when I knew Townes Van Zandt and Lucinda Williams. Those days are long gone now.

[Dustin Rhodes]

Ha. let's see it got that boost 46 years ago. That is quite a boost.

I think Oh brother where art thou helped quite a bit, and I think Will the Circle Be Unbroken with the Nitty Gritty Dirt band set it on a very healthy cross over path.

Plus Bluegrass is highly improvisational which I think made it made it, and makes it more exciting than playing the same song, just like the record, in 3 minute chunks over and over again, decade after decade

Bluegrass like blues (another genre that has a huge following) has a big community aspect where there are regular jams and festivals. Lots of involving kids and keeping the music alive with both genres.

[Dustin Rhodes]

Country music is still going places. Popular country is just one branch. I'm headed to to see Marty Stuart tomorrow night and in messing around on youtube, getting myself lathered up for the show, came across two acts entirely new to me that on first view I really like. Great new country music is out there, you just have to hunt for it. Neither of these clips are straight up, classic country, but the influences are there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7xPpYBa6pg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGC0NyuJEiw

Here's a more recent one from Nikki. Great, catchy song that would have gotten radio play in the past likely.
https://youtu.be/G_lXwZuGO9Y

[Bill McCloskey]

So, my question would be: where is the grass roots efforts to keep country alive, like bluegrass? those festivals, and workshops for kids, and fan groups didn't happen by themselves. They happened because passionate people gave of their time and their money and their passion to make it happen.

You can piss and moan about the current situation, or you can do something about it. In bluegrass, organizers of events like Grey Fox, did something about it. In my area, there is the Hudson Valley Bluegrass Association which sponsors jams twice a month, starting with slow jams for beginners, and faster jams for the more experience and each jam features a new song to learn.

Maybe country music has similar projects, I don't know since I don't follow country music. But it seems to me, you want to change things, someone has to get off their butts and make it happen.

[Mark Hershey]

Country music is still going places. Popular country is just one branch. I'm headed to to see Marty Stuart tomorrow night and in messing around on youtube, getting myself lathered up for the show, came across two acts entirely new to me that on first view I really like. Great new country music is out there, you just have to hunt for it. Neither of these clips are straight up, classic country, but the influences are there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7xPpYBa6pg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGC0NyuJEiw

Here's a more recent one from Nikki. Great, catchy song that would have gotten radio play in the past likely.
https://youtu.be/G_lXwZuGO9Y

Thanks for posting, I've been listening to her stuff for the last hour now and I'm enjoying it a lot. I have to get some of her work.

[Mark Hershey]

So, my question would be: where is the grass roots efforts to keep country alive, like bluegrass? those festivals, and workshops for kids, and fan groups didn't happen by themselves. They happened because passionate people gave of their time and their money and their passion to make it happen.

You can piss and moan about the current situation, or you can do something about it. In bluegrass, organizers of events like Grey Fox, did something about it. In my area, there is the Hudson Valley Bluegrass Association which sponsors jams twice a month, starting with slow jams for beginners, and faster jams for the more experience and each jam features a new song to learn.

Maybe country music has similar projects, I don't know since I don't follow country music. But it seems to me, you want to change things, someone has to get off their butts and make it happen.

I posted in the other thread but just doing a simple google search 'real country music 2017' pulls up a few websites and blogs that are devoted to the cause. There's a lot of like minded folks out there fed-up. Dale Watson is doing his part to get a movement going as well.

I've always rejected the notion that good music isn't happening now. Every time one of these threads pop up in this forum people post youtube links of current underground artists that sound great that I've never heard of before.

[Bill McCloskey]

I think one of the differences is: hardly anyone in bluegrass makes their living from playing Bluegrass. No one who plays expects to be a star, have big hit records or anything like that. Everyone, for the most part has a day job.

And even the ones that are super stars, like Jerry Douglas, are almost unknown outside of the dobro and bluegrass circles.

There is just a love of the music that transcends commercialism, star power, money, fame. I think in country music, the opposite is the case. In fact, in many of the threads on this forum, professionals bemoan the fact that those willing to play for nothing hurt those trying to make their living at it. When your passion becomes your vocation, a lot is lost. No disrespect to the great musicians on this forum that are professionals and do make their living at it.

[Dustin Rhodes]

Here is some more good recent stuff.

Margo Price - thats Sturgill's old bass player with her. Him and Laur have found greener pastures it seems.
https://youtu.be/pkS6z-Cx7nU
https://youtu.be/eB3acFYvBZQ

Whitney Rose - Some Redd Volkaert on guitar.
https://youtu.be/byIcqo6yYl0
One with a bit of a Boots Randolph feel
https://youtu.be/eK7ic9mRGxg

Jaime Wyatt - Good album here
https://youtu.be/bBbvkRBcuXs

Sam Outlaw - Very west coast in an Eagles/Poco sort of way
https://youtu.be/oN1l06eXYhQ
https://youtu.be/M_PYoAp7-8E

Colter Wall - A voice that would spook Johnny Cash
https://youtu.be/VrIUdXrRZuY
https://youtu.be/4getBk1onkY

Jason Eady - great songwriting here
https://youtu.be/s6moPHK28kQ

Lindi Ortega - Canadian like Colter Wall. Some great voices up there.
https://youtu.be/ML43PhLpsjA

Mike & the Moonpies - Alot of things they're doing you don't hear out of country bands now like Jerry Reed style twin leads.
https://youtu.be/hZz98uKPAm4
https://youtu.be/hLKjVEjLTJI
https://youtu.be/l_CzLhpthek

Turnpike Troubadours - Got a full time steel player this album
https://youtu.be/7DVDhY9MalM
https://youtu.be/gc44qlhC1PE

[Barry Blackwood]

So maybe that's another thing I think is increasingly missing - intelligence.

Especially when the local intelligencia looks like this..

[Dustin Rhodes]

So maybe that's another thing I think is increasingly missing - intelligence.

Especially when the local intelligencia looks like this..

I don't think line dancing has been the scourge of country for at least 20 years now.

This here is the scourge of country music currently. Please remember this is a grown #ss adult man singing this. 6 years older than me and this is what his life experience has lead him to write about.
https://youtu.be/lbZVbLw-MYA

[scott murray]

there is still a ton of great country music happening at local levels all over the world.

I'm in several outfits here in Asheville. a classic country band (Cyndi Lou & the Want To), an original country band (Laurel Lee & the Escapees), a country "jam" band (Astral Plainsmen), and a live country karaoke band that plays every week (Take the Wheel). people seem to eat all of it up in general.

the problem with modern-day popular country is that a lot of it's not really country at all. I'm thinking of 80s and 90s pop/rock acts like Bon Jovi and Darius Rucker that are now considered "country". it's insulting


contemporary bluegrass doesn't do much for me, mainly the singing has become too slick and ego-driven and a lot of the pickers sound like carbon copies of each other. I guess Earl Scruggs had the same effect with the banjo many decades ago, but it seems like most guitar players these days just want to sound like Tony Rice, dobro players like Jerry Douglas, etc.

I've also come across a certain attitude among bluegrass players who think they're hot sh!t and aren't much fun to try and make music with. mandolin players especially!