The Steel Guitar Forum

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 10 May 2005 9:54 am

I don't think you need a 12 string!

Seriously, your playing in a pretty high register all the time. That works okay for lead lines, but I suspect that it would really bug the singer after a while. What do you do when someone else is taking the lead?

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra SD-12 (Ext E9), Williams D-12 Crossover, Sierra S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6)

John Schjolberg · Post by **John Schjolberg** » 10 May 2005 9:59 am

Chris Brooks · Post by **Chris Brooks** » 10 May 2005 10:13 am

What b0b is leading up to is that there is a place for lower clusters of strings used for chording and playing with the rhythm section; and those lower strings can produce nice, cello-like melodies.

Try lower strings. A nice relief from staying up in the stratosphere.

Chris (also 12-string extended E9)

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now living in the Ocean State ....

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 10 May 2005 10:37 am

One of my most favorite grips is the 6, 8 & 10 string grip. This will put a real "growl" in your playing.
Erv

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 10 May 2005 10:42 am

John, I did this when I first started playing. In fact, the instructional video I saw discussed mostly those 4 strings. But I agree with b0b, it's pretty limited, especially for backup. I also find constant high-pitch stuff fatigues the ears.

I suggest you work in some lower grips, like 8,6,5,(4) or 10,8,6,(5) (parenthesis if you use 4 fingers instead of 3). On the open strings, these grips also make an E chord, and you get the A chord with the AB pedals, etc., but you have to worry about skipping strings, which requires more right hand control. There's a lot of music on the lower strings, and we haven't even started to talk about strings 7 and 9.

Todd Pertll · Post by **Todd Pertll** » 10 May 2005 10:50 am

I found a cool inversion in a guitar magazine that utilizes the lower strings. Play your triads (major and minor) skipping every other step. For instance play a C major chord C, G, E (where E is a 10th above the root note C). And just move that inversion up; next would be G, E, C (where C is an 11th above the G). Does that make sense?

I need more work on using the lower strings also. It seems like everytime I try, I end up in the same regiter as the electric guitar player if he is just playing chords, and it sounds really muddy to me.

Todd

Pete Grant · Post by **Pete Grant** » 10 May 2005 11:29 am

It's called open voicing, and gives a great sound. Those of us with extended E9th have twice as many choices of our voicings. (More than that if you include 12, 5, and 3.)

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 10 May 2005 12:36 pm

Time for some experimenting in the woodshed. That's what I had to do. Also, find some tab where the 6, 8, and 10 are being used and analyze it.

Strings 7 & 9, now there's where some secrets lie in wait.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 10 May 2005 12:54 pm

Ray is hinting at the REAL goods, i.e. what you can do with the 7 and 9 strings as the root of some pretty fat chords.

The four strings you mention DO get used a lot, but it's the rich sounds of the lower strings that get me off when I'm not playing lead rides (and sometimes even when I am).

Spend some time in practice playing 6/8/10 string chords, check out the dom 7th at the 9 string and the 9th at the 7 string with your pedals-up chords, lots of the best sounds on the instrument involve using one or both of those two strings.

Willie Crisel · Post by **Willie Crisel** » 10 May 2005 5:49 pm

I'm also guilty,,,a friend of mine showed me the 9th string lower with the a and b pedals,,starting on strings 10 9 and 8,,then 9 8 and 7..ect,,,cool sounding c 6th,,cords on the e 9th,,,played a gig sat,night,,and over used this one all night,,,had a few people tell me i'm getting better,,at least i fooled a few more of them,,,

Damien Odell · Post by **Damien Odell** » 10 May 2005 8:06 pm

I fall into this trap regularly - probably cause I'm lazy. I have found it useful to think to myself at the start of a song that I will try to get through it without doing all my usual cliche stuff on those three strings. There is a whole new world down on the lower string that I'm discovering - specially with the E changes, and some nice 6 / 9 chords. Glad to hear it's not just me who needs to break out of the 3/4/5/6 confort zone....

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 11 May 2005 8:05 am

How much you can use the lower voicings depends on two things, the other instrumentation, and the tone you use. In a big band, with a lot of other instruments playing in the same register, it gets awfully busy if you use them often. And, it also gets "muddy" (clashes with the electric bass) if you are using a bassy tone.

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 11 May 2005 10:37 am

I find the second string on the E9th neck useless for the kind of stuff I'm doing. I play mostly three chord rock in major or minor keys, and that second string doesn't work anywhere. I'm tempted to retune both E9th and C6th necks to open major and minor chords, but then the whole guitar would have to be re-rodded to make chord changes possible.

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 11 May 2005 1:55 pm

I like 4, 6 and 10 a lot.

Gary Spaeth · Post by **Gary Spaeth** » 12 May 2005 3:46 am

don't forget 8 and 5 with the first pedal. a must for george jones shiver sounds. lloyd green uses this a lot too. very pretty!!

Pat Dawson · Post by **Pat Dawson** » 12 May 2005 4:20 am

4, 6, 10 - Bill, I've heard it called the "Amen" chord. B is down and roll in the A. One of my favorite sounds.

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1970 Emmons D10
Nashville 1000

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 12 May 2005 8:02 am

I've always been fascinated with the lack of discussion of "rhythm steel". In a lot of the bands I play with I see my function as somewhere between a fiddle or guitar and keyboard, and I play a lot of rhtyhm using the lower registers. Mandatory on rockish stuff. I have a lot of fun trying to groove with the hi-hat.

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 12 May 2005 8:55 am

One of the things that came to mind regarding this thread is that, when I did finally start playing with the fatter strings, I had to tweak the bottom end controls on the NV400. Up 'till that time it didn't really matter.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 12 May 2005 9:43 am

I find the second string on the E9th neck useless for the kind of stuff I'm doing. I play mostly three chord rock in major or minor keys, and that second string doesn't work anywhere.

The second string is indispensible for fast licks in any kind of music. Try this in your rock solos in E or Em, just for a taste:
<pre>
1 __________________________________________
2 ______15_______________15_________________
3 __________________________________________
4 __15_______________15_____________________
5 __________15A--15__________15A--15________
-
1 __________________________________________
2 ______15________________13________________
3 __________________________________________
4 __15________________13____________________
5 __________15A--13A__________13A--12A______
-
1 __________________________________________
2 ______12D_________________________________
3 __________________________________________
4 __12_________________12___________________
5 ___________12A--12________________________
</pre>There are a lot of possibilities in that 4-2-5 pattern.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra SD-12 (Ext E9), Williams D-12 Crossover, Sierra S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6)

John Schjolberg · Post by **John Schjolberg** » 12 May 2005 12:08 pm

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 12 May 2005 12:33 pm

It sounds like you don't have a good understanding of the fret board if you are limited to certain strings. One way to help get past that is to take any lick you know and play the exact same notes on 3 different places on the neck. Its a trick Lloyd Green showed me a while back. I really gets you thinking about how the tuning functions.

Another way to get past limitations that I use is Joe Wright's spreadsheet program:
www.pedalsteel.com/joe/pro/sheet.html

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Bob
intonation help

Joe Yednasty · Post by **Joe Yednasty** » 12 May 2005 5:34 pm

If you really want to learn other strings, take some of the commonly used ones off and play with some missing strings. I know that when one of my strings broke and I had to wait for the replacement to be shipped, I began to play with the strings that were on there and learned how to use some that I hardly ever touched.

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"Eskimo" Joe Yednasty

Emmons P/P S-10
Peavey Session 500

Ralph Mooney Fan

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 12 May 2005 7:36 pm

Actually, it's a sign of progress when you notice what you are not doing.

Gordon Borland · Post by **Gordon Borland** » 12 May 2005 10:09 pm

I play with a four piece band drums, bass,lead guitar and I double on keys but never in the same song like Winston Oneal does.
When the lead gutiar takes his lead I use the lower triads to "boom chick" rythum in shuffels ie Crazy Arms, Pride. On the ballads
I use the bottom triads for long sustain "fat chords" to allow the vocal to float on. I think of the steel more as an orchestra and voice the chords like a string section. When I joined the band about twelve years ago I asked the band leader what he wanted from the steel during his leads. He said "the fatter the better". I try to do the best I can but I am up to two hunddred and sixty pounds and I really dont think its good for my health.

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Gordon Borland
MSA D10,NASHVILLE 400,SESSIONS 2000,PEAVEY ADDVERB,SOME WIRES AND A BATTERY.