Need a good chord study for U12

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 24 Nov 2004 9:00 am

I need an in depth chord book for the 12string universal tuning. Something as comprehensive as the Flanz C6 book, covering all chords.

What's out there?

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 24 Nov 2004 9:12 am

Me too.

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Dave Zirbel-
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Mark Metdker · Post by **Mark Metdker** » 24 Nov 2004 10:27 am

Yep, me three!

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Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 25 Nov 2004 9:14 pm

John Bresler R.I.P. · Post by **John Bresler R.I.P.** » 26 Nov 2004 8:04 am

Check with Joe Wright. I believe he uses the entire neck as one universal tuning and not as two separate ones as Jeff Newmans approach was. Scott Henderson also has a lot of stuff about the universal tuning on his web site.

Scott Henderson · Post by **Scott Henderson** » 26 Nov 2004 8:16 am

And I am working on new b6th book. Hopefully by the first of the year.

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Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 26 Nov 2004 1:39 pm

This might help:
http://www.skobrien.com/ChordFinder/ChordFinder.asp

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Bob
intonation help

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 26 Nov 2004 2:50 pm

The ones written for E9 and C6 work fine. That's one reason it's called a UNIVERSAL tuning. Take the C6 chord dictionary and raise the bar 1 fret. I've never found any need for anything specifically written for the E9/B6. All of the tab and instructional stuff is easily applicable.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
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David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 26 Nov 2004 5:10 pm

While what Larry says is true, learning E9 and C6 chords separately misses the grand unity of the universal. Maybe we should try to persuade Steve O'Brian to add two more strings and four more pedals to his 10-string spreadsheet.

Jon Jaffe · Post by **Jon Jaffe** » 26 Nov 2004 7:21 pm

Yes! I agree with Larry as well. The universal tuning allows movement E9 or C6 alone do not provide. 1950 was a great year.

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Jon Jaffe
Austin, Texas, USA
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Bob Kagy · Post by **Bob Kagy** » 27 Nov 2004 7:36 am

For another way to map chords for any tuning/setup try this free download program by Karlis Abolins:
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum4/HTML/002744.html

It's pretty easy to use; I just downloaded it last week. It's slick, and you input your own tuning with pedal changes.

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 27 Nov 2004 11:04 am

I think that more than owning a book, having a methodology on how to explore and learn to understand the tuning and setup (in this case the 12 string universal E or B based) will lead to a more aplicable learning experience.

Let me explain:
Once you understand that in a E based universal, pushing pedals A&B puts the guitar into A(6th) you need to revamp the learned: That where ever your bar is, with no pedal engaged pushing A&B raises the chord a fourth (Eg: from a I to a IV or a V to a I, asf.) which means that you'd have to move up 7 frets or move down 5 frets to get back into the outgoing chord... It's done all the time as a typical "Country" ending. Once we establish this way of looking at our changes, we can thread this further; most will know that when you have A&B down and then move down two frets disengaging A and adding the E-to-Eb-lower lever you still have the same chord (with B down as a 7th, without B as a 6th). If we relate this to our starting position we then find that an E-to-Eb-lever position (with or without B) is 5 frets (+7-2) above open or 7 (-5-2) frets below open. And now, we go universal: If your back at your E-to-Eb-lever position and go down another 2 frets (now only 3 frets abofe open) and add the pedal that lowers you 7th string half among other things (called the 2nd pedal on a standard C6th setup) (if B was on it's now off) you again have that chord (7/9th, just as before with the B pedal in). The 3 frets above open position is a commmon E9th position (A&E-toF-raise, or just A or E-to-F).
Once you learn to explore your setup like that, several things will hapen:

You will have a method that you con mentaly access and use just the way you learned it when you play.
You will have full understanding of what "universal" really is.
You will better understand other tunings and setup... I bet that you now recognise where that A-to-Bb raise comes from on some C6th setups, it does the same as the B pedal on an E9th tuning... and we know how beautifully it works with that E-drop-lever.
And you will not forget it... and here's the proof. I haven't played a pedal steel for more than 3 years now and while I'm writing this there is no book or guitar even close to me. I am not the memory king... so if I con do that. EVERYBODY CAN.

Hope this is of help... J-D.

Scott Henderson · Post by **Scott Henderson** » 27 Nov 2004 1:03 pm

Correct me if I am wrong but what most people who play a uni are looking for is the "6th side" of the tuning. Now this ,to me, is where the hole rub of universal comes in... Do you use all pedals whether they are considered e9th or b6th? of course you do. Why not use every tool you have available. MY double -10 has 9 and 8, my unni -12 has 8 and 5. I can accomplish most anything I want on either guitar. But more so on the 6th tuning of any guitar you have to be able to play the top before you can implement any pedals. If you started on a non-pedal guitar you know what I mean and should allready be miles ahead on this issue. If not you need to explore what the tuning has to offer without pedals first.
Yes I agree you can "transpose" about any c6th course but that can get confusing. I have done this before and talk about being cross-eyed for a while. What ever tuning you play your mind has to commit to that tuning for that moment. (Some people call this approaching a tuning.) One thing I will say about the B6th tuning on a 12 string over a c6th tuning on a 10 string is this. You are actually in theory have 11 strings to work a tuning out of. What I mean by this is you have the possibility of an f# and a c# on the first string. (or to "transpose" to C6th a G and a D) I will get into this more in my upcoming book. I'm not writing this to start another big stink about whats better, D-10 or U-12. My theory is simple play what you want to play and don't be limited with anything you play. It's all there you just have to find it.

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Steelin' away in the ozarks and life,
Scott
www.scottyhenderson.com

Sonny Miller · Post by **Sonny Miller** » 29 Nov 2004 11:00 am

After all is said and done, lets see some copedents, so i can compare the bottom line.
We talked about a 12 string that Joe Wright uses that does not use the E9/B6 idea.
And JD talked about something else i think,and was the E9/A6 approach (I think.) Which I have touched upon in my playing using the A and B down on E9 and adding the Bflat as a 6 pedal when it is applied to the AB pedals. I found this to be very good sounding, and would like to see a copedent with the A6 developed on the E9 with the pedals down.
So can i get a copedent to develop this? Am I on the right track?

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 29 Nov 2004 12:21 pm

We talked about a 12 string that Joe Wright uses that does not use the E9/B6 idea.

Joe's tuning is pretty much what we layfolk call an E9/B6...it it his APPROACH to that set of intervals, that he does not treat it like two "sides" (E9 side / B6 side) but as one homogenous tuning which is the key.

I'm still wrestling with that approach... right now I think I'm up to playing it like a "hyper-extended" E9

as far as chord/scale resources.. try this on for size: http://www.pedalsteel.com/joe/pro/sheet.html
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[This message was edited by Dave Van Allen on 29 November 2004 at 12:25 PM.]

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 5 Dec 2004 11:44 am

Sonny Miller, thanks for looking at what I was trying to explain.
I would however not call it the E9th/A6th approach. To me it's just the E9th-Universal approach on what is comonly called an E9th/B6th setup. I do no call it E9th/B6th because I do not think in two tunings but in one instead; the E9th-based-Universal setup. If y would base my tuning out of an open B6th (B6th/E9th), I would call it B6th-Universal and play it that way. But the music and my thinking would be the same.
My post was not realy geared toward making that particular point, but instead to show how I feel it may be easiest to learn a particular tuning and setup, how to explore it and how to build a mental map of where things are and why. It works for any chord the same way, so instead of learning to find all chords 12 times (Eg: C7b9, C#7b9, D7#b9 and so forth), it seems to me easier to learn, subsequently easier to memorize and finally more applicable in music to establish a relationship of chords once.
In other words, If I find all tensions of a particular chord, may it be C, and also some quick and handy relations, like close V's IV's -II's-III's and so forth, it the same "map" will be applicable to any chord and the tuning and setup will become more evident and modifications or new changes more understandable.

... J-D.