Chess peices and card suits on fingerboards

Eugene Cole · Post by **Eugene Cole** » 31 Jan 2003 11:25 pm

Why were chess peices, and playing card suits (hearts, spades, diamonds, and clubs) chosen to be used as fingerboard markers on the more modern steel guitars?

What is the history of these items being used for this purpose?

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Regards
-- Eugene@FJ45.com

Ed Naylor · Post by **Ed Naylor** » 1 Feb 2003 5:43 am

Probably the person who used the idea played cards. Over the years I have replaced hundreds of them with a "Generic" fret board because lots of people were offended by them. Here in the "Bible Belt" many steelers play in churches etc. Ed Naylor Steel Guitar Works

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 1 Feb 2003 8:32 am

Ed:
When I played my Sho~Bud, I placed some little pieces of chrome tape over the card symbols. When I traded the guitar off, Al Udeen wound up with it and thought:"What kind of a lunatic would do something like that". Nice to find out that there are other lunatics in the world.
Erv

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 1 Feb 2003 9:10 am

I just don´t understand why people get offended by them. I mean, it doesn´t HURT anybody to look at those things, it´s not like racism or sexism or something like that-I´ve never played cards and never will - it´s just a thing that I´m not interested in at all. However, I think those card symbols look ultra cool on a ShoBud - to me they just belong there, it´s "synonymous" and I WANT them on my current ShoBud and any I might own in the future.

Regards, Joe H.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 1 Feb 2003 9:35 am

The fret markers on Merle Travis' guitar neck, the one Paul Bigsby made for Merle's Martin D28, were little pearl card symbols. Probably that's where Sho-Bud got the idea.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 1 Feb 2003 10:17 am

I guess it's just a dumb "Christian" thing!!!
Uff-Da!

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 1 Feb 2003 10:33 am

I'm a dumb Christian, and not offended by playing cards. To each his own.

I like the Sho-Bud fingerboards so much that I installed one on my Carter. They just look cool, IMO.

I know many Sho-Bud's have been changed because of belief. There's also some ministers that consider the Steel a "Honky Tonk Instrument" with no place in church.
One thing is for sure, I have no place in their church. Closed minds are not for me.

I'd like to know why MSA selected Chess Pieces. Reese??

If you're against atomic weapons can you still play an Emmons?

Chick Donner · Post by **Chick Donner** » 1 Feb 2003 10:47 am

Now, who wants to tell the story of the neck markers on ZB's?

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 1 Feb 2003 10:58 am

"Make a joyfull noise unto the Lord"

I think pedal steels make a joyfull noise !!

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 1 Feb 2003 11:05 am

Erv I think I understand where your coming from because I somewhat agree with you. Question. Is it that a true Christian should believe that the Holy Spirit should be the spiritual guide in life's decisions rather that taking a gamble (which are whats cards are all about)? I agree with this, but I still think the card suit looks ultra cool on the fret boards. This is an interesting spiritual decision for a Christian.

Reece Anderson · Post by **Reece Anderson** » 1 Feb 2003 11:21 am

Joey A....Tom Morrell and Danny Shields, who were originally the M & S in MSA, were building a guitar in the very early 1960's called the Morrell Shields Custom. They had selected chess pieces for fret markers before I became involved and the MSA company was formed.

I wanted to continue to use the symbols even on the new MSA Millennium because my feelings have always been, "the chess pieces provide the perception of a dignified and intellectual connotation".

I of course cannot speak for Tom or Danny as to the reasons behind their decision to use them originally!

Thank you for the question......

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 1 Feb 2003 11:53 am

According to the scriptures, we shouldn't do anything to offend a Brother. Some people have a strong conviction against card playing. That's why I covered up the card symbols on my Sho~Bud. I will play a game of cards once in a while, myself, and I like to play cribbage with my daughter. In the bible, some people were eating the meat that was sacrificed. And although there wasn't anything wrong with it, it was offensive to some. It was advised not to do it lest it would cause a Brother to stumble.
I presently have 2 Sho~Buds and this afternoon I'm going to be looking at another one for sale. These all have the card symbols on them but I won't be playing them in church! I take my Emmons there.
Uff-Da!
p.s.: I'm not against atomic weapons, particularly if one is dropped on Sadam Insane's head!
[This message was edited by Erv Niehaus on 01 February 2003 at 11:57 AM.]

John Robel · Post by **John Robel** » 1 Feb 2003 12:43 pm

I too am a "dumb christian" (Catholic, the "worst kind" I have heard) and am not offended by any fret markers I can think of offhand. I might buy some naked chicks markers if I could find 'em.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 1 Feb 2003 12:46 pm

Ever heard Tex Ritter's recitation, "Deck of Cards?" I'm a Christian, saved by grace, and I attend a Southern Baptist church. I'm not offended in the least by the hearts, clubs, etc. on the Sho-Bud fingerboards. I don't like the way they look on the front, though, just cause I think that's ugly. By the way, if I win the lottery, I'll pay my ten percent off the top, to my church. It's the least I can do.
I know this isn't the Christian steel Forum(I thank God that there IS one, though), but it's good to see this kind of discussion pop up every once in a while, instead of insults, profanity, out-and-out slander, and the other stuff that slips in under bOb's radar. God bless!

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 1 Feb 2003 1:47 pm

i traded in my deck of cards,(after playin poker in the vip lounges in airports w: band members+roadies) for a ShoBud and i've seen the Light ever since !
i respect those that find the Card symbols to be profane.
Chess Pieces and the Atomic symbol are Noble in comparison.(Zum and Mullen are kewl !)
the Cards are probably reminiscent of the Ol'West. Saloons,Gunfights and Songs.
Since i'm a Taoist, i think i'd like a fretboard w: Fire,Water,Air and Earth markers
Bobbeee if you don't have these,
those w: the wild cards will do

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Steel what?

[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 02 February 2003 at 02:12 AM.]

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 1 Feb 2003 1:52 pm

The longhorn markers on Fessenden fretboards are pretty cool. Not bad for a Yankee!

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Jim Smith jimsmith94@attbi.com
-=Dekley D-12 10&12=-
-=Fessenden D-12 (coming soon)=-
Stereo Steel rig w/Boss GX-700
IVL SteelRider w/JV-880

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 1 Feb 2003 2:30 pm

T. Texas Tyler had the original recording of "Deck of Cards" in the late 40's. I used to here it listening to WJJD on Randy Blake's "Supper Time Frolic" every evening in Chicago. The song was a tear jerker type of song. And Tyler did it about as well as anyone I guess.

carl

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 1 Feb 2003 4:09 pm

Lyrics for "Deck of Cards".

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 1 Feb 2003 6:54 pm

re: ZB Custom...
the Greco-Roman Helmets and Shields were probably meant to connote a "touch of classical"

"Pagan" though they may be, I like the look of them...

Billy Easton · Post by **Billy Easton** » 3 Feb 2003 7:44 am

Carl...
Your mention of Randy Blake and the "Suppertime Frolic" (or was it "Suppertime Jamboree")sure brings back memories when I was pretty small of hearing Joaquin play the theme song....Oklahoma Stomp. Thanks for bringing that back.

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Billy Easton
Casa Grande, AZ
Southwestern Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Billy Easton on 03 February 2003 at 07:45 AM.][This message was edited by Billy Easton on 03 February 2003 at 07:45 AM.]

Chris DeBarge · Post by **Chris DeBarge** » 3 Feb 2003 8:22 am

All's I know is that people really dig the card symbols when they see them. Kinda like flaming dice, pin-ups etc.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 3 Feb 2003 9:21 am

Billy,

Yes, it was called The Suppertime Frolic. It was a local broadcast from WJJD in Chicago during the 40's and 50's. When Randy died, the show did not survive. Randy was one of the nation's first "talk a commercial to death" announcers. For every 2 minute song he played he talked and "pitched" for a solid 20 minutes. And many times longer by the CLOCK. He was considered one of the most successful radio salesman ever. Made a fortune.

But for a listener who loved "hillbilly" music, it had to be the epitome of borrrrrrrrring. So lonnnnnnnnnnng between songs.

Randy was a lover of the "Chuck Wagon Gang". I am talking about the original group. And he played a lot of their songs. I couldn't stand them as a kid. Now I have aquired somewhat of a taste for their style. Randy even recorded with them singing tenor on ocassion.

Not sure we are talking about the same program. Maybe. I barely recall the theme song. It might have been Joaguin Murphy now that my memory is being jogged though.

carl

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 3 Feb 2003 9:49 am

....(quote)....I guess it's just a dumb "Christian" thing!!!....

There is no "one size fits all" in Christianity. The scriptures are about 10% what you MUST do, and about 10% what you must NOT do...and the remaining 80% called the "Gray" area is where most of the differences between the denominations occur.

I don't find any specific references in the scriptures to chess & card suits on fingerboards, or many of the other controversial things such as whether or not to play musical instruments in worship, so those by default fall into the gray area.

I feel strongly however, that the scriptural admonition for each person to "work out their salvation with fear and trembling" applies directly to the "gray" area.

What one Christian may believe is a sin because of his interpretation of the gray area, may not be a sin for another Christian because his interpretation of the gray is different.

....but regardless of our belief, none of us will ever qualify based on our actions...God's GRACE is the only thing that will "save" any of us....

Gene

BobG · Post by **BobG** » 3 Feb 2003 10:11 am

I'm a little lost on this one.. Is it Card playing that is found offensive or gambling?
It is possible to do one without the other.

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Bob Grado, Williams D10 (lefty), Peavey 1000,
Profex ll.

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 3 Feb 2003 12:20 pm

Blackie Taylor told me a story years ago of a student he had who was going to a higher priced steel. He brought his mother to the store and the boy wanted a ShoBud but his mom said no because of the card symbols on it. I don't seen anything wrong with them and I too think they're cool. By the way:

Why don't Baptists have sex standing up?

Answer: If they got caught, someone might think they were dancing.......

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.