Instruction courses for blues on C6th?

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 22 Oct 2004 3:27 pm

Can somebody tell me a good instruction course for blues on C6? most I've seen are western swing, or jazz type courses. I'm not talkin about the rock blues stuff, I'm talkin about good ole country blues stuff.

thanks
Terry

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

Travis Bernhardt · Post by **Travis Bernhardt** » 22 Oct 2004 10:52 pm

It seems to me that "good ol' country blues" isn't usually played on a C6 tuned guitar. Open G and Open D might be better choices. If we're thinking of the same kind of music, then I think you'd want the lower range, the open strings and the lack of a full minor chord to get the sound. But maybe I'm mistaken--what are some examples of the kind of music you're talking about?

-Travis

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 23 Oct 2004 12:27 am

For country blues on C6 you just use the 6 to Dom 7 lever a lot more.

Check Buddy's sight, in his swinging series, there is a lot of jazz, but also a few blues.

Terry, on request I will send you Traps Chord finder in.PDF format.
with your chord pattern and this list of chord copnstruction combinations for C6,
you should be able to figure any blues you want.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 23 October 2004 at 01:30 AM.]

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 23 Oct 2004 2:25 am

A classic for C6 was Buddy Emmons Derby Power "Blues To Use". It was originally on cassett and was out of print, but I have heard that it is available again...check the BE website, or Ernie Renn.

www.genejones.com

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 23 Oct 2004 5:50 am

IMO them Ol'Natchl'Country Blues that Terry is after is much more primitive and simpler that Buddy's stuff
don't get me wrong Buddy's "Blues to use" is super hip & cool man but it's probably a little evolved for the Blues that Terry is after
Terry,i would recommend that you cop some sides by Blind Willie Johnson, Son House, The Black Ace, One String Sam, Muddy Waters, Bukkha White, Mississipi Fred Mc Dowell, Earl Hooker, Elmore James as well as Bonnie Raitt, Ry Cooder, Taj Mahal & Bob Brozman
there's plenty to be copped from the Sacred Steelers too
of course a nice 6/7/8 string lap steel (Gibson, Fender or Rickenbacher) tuned in E/D/F high to low: 1531(or dom7)51 would be more appropriate than a 10 stringer
i'm sure there's teaching materials about them Ol'Country Blues but nothin beats usin' yer ears & patience & playin' along w: the sides
the Blues ain't nuthin' but a good man feelin' bad

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 23 Oct 2004 6:40 am

well, I guess I should have said Gospel blues, since I play mostly Gospel music

Travis , I like the "Ole Bale blues" on Jeff Newman's C6 workshop. and also the Chuck Berry stuff.

For country blues on C6 you just use the 6 to Dom 7 lever a lot more

David, could you explain exactly what you mean by 6 to dom 7 please. I just started C6 about 2 months ago, and I don't know a whole lot about it. The only pedals and levers I know how to use or the 5 and 6 pedal, and the lever that lowers the 3rd string.
I'd appreciate the chord chart very much David. thanks

I don't like western swing, or jazz at all. the only reason I've kept my D10 is for blues and I suppose I could get that on E9th just as good right?
Let me ask ya'll this, is it worth keepin my D10 just to play Gospel blues stuff on C6, or would E9 be a better choice for blues? Or do I need to change my tuning to the sacred tuning? I really don't want to do that, it would be like starting all over again.thanks for your help guys.
Terry

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

[This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 23 October 2004 at 07:47 AM.][This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 23 October 2004 at 07:52 AM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 23 Oct 2004 8:53 am

Ok the Scared steel copedent is more an E7 tuning,
because that fits to the style more.

But C6 is a hipper tuning because with that A, 6th tone, it is a very interchangable tuning.

But a standard lever on C6 is the 6th note A to Bb
or domminant 7th note of the scale or chord.

So basically you are rasing your 4th string a 1/2 stop.
I also raise my 8th string A to Bb at the same time, but many don't.

Another bluesy change is up 3 frets with C's raised to C#

You call also add to pedal 6 this just before a change from IV to root chord.

Also another good bluesy change
just before a change from Root chord to IV chord is to drop back 2 frets with pedal 5

With 5 + 5 on C6 you have lots of ways round the barn. but two levers will do a lot too.

Terry If I know what your levers do I can say more. I assume the pedals are vanilla C6.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 23 Oct 2004 9:01 am

"Scared steel?" I play a lot of that style too.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 23 Oct 2004 9:16 am

Terry, what David means by 6 to 7 is a half step raise to get from the 6th to the 7th tone
the 6th chord has that jazzy & western swing color
the dominant 7 has that Blues & Rock color

on C6 strings 4 & 8 are A or the 6th of C
if you have a knee lever that raises those 2 strings a half step to Bb then you have your dom7 -
another dom7 position is pedal 6 - fret 7
strings 2346789 - there's another C7
and another C7 chord: pedal 5 - Fret 10
strings 134578910
and another: pedal 8 & Klever that raises string 3 a half step - Fret 3
strings 2345678910

on E9 C7 can be found at Fret 1 w: pedal B and the lever that lower string 4 & 8 (Es)
release pedal B and you have your C6

you can find a Blues position by playing up a minor third or 3 frets up from the main chord position
matter of fact there's some more 1 tone down or 2 frets from the main position too
listen to the notes & let your ear hear the right ones

i don't think you need to change to the sacred steel tuning - check a steeler out that has it first
C6 is great for Gospel cause it has a deeper sound than E9 - great for chords
but E9 is also good for Gospel but on a higher register
yeah keep your D10
2 necks are better than 1

God gave Noah the Rainbow sign
no more water but fire next time

play it on C6, you'll love it
[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 23 October 2004 at 01:12 PM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 23 Oct 2004 11:46 am

CB, good suplimental explaination,
but I think you meant strings 4+8 on E9
E's top Eb (not 3 and 7)
DD

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 23 October 2004 at 12:47 PM.]

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 23 Oct 2004 12:14 pm

Mercy Bookoo DD

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 23 Oct 2004 4:31 pm

Thanks David and crowbear. yes, I have the standard C6 set up. my 4th pedal raises 4 and 8 to B, my 5th pedal lowers G to F#, my 6 pedal lowers E to Eb and raises E(2nd string) to F. my 7th pedal raises C(3rd)to D and A(4th to B) my 8th pedal raises C(7th)to C# and I'm not sure what else it does.

Jeff's C6 workshop helped me a lot, I can play ole Bale blues, and have worked up my own little arrangment for "Just A Closer Walk With Thee" and I'm workin on "Peace In The Valley". I can go through the chords fairly well now using my 5th and 6th pedals and my knee lever that lowers my 3rd string a half tone (I think). But I don't know when to use my 7th and 8th pedals. Thanks for the lesson using my 4th pedal. I appreciate the help ya'll have given me so far. Heck, ya'll keep em coming and I want have to buy a course, I'll just print this thread off and learn from ya'll.

Terry

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

[This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 23 October 2004 at 05:41 PM.]

Travis Bernhardt · Post by **Travis Bernhardt** » 23 Oct 2004 5:13 pm

I think the main thing would be to think of your guitar as a lap steel, keeping pedal moves to a minimum. One thing I like to do is hold down pedal 8 and play the tuning that results without any additional pedals. It's a Dom7#9 chord, which can be easily turned into a straight ninth chord with your third string half-step lower if you neeed it to sound a little "prettier." Just use different grips if you don't want the seventh note, and fake your minor chords.

-Travis

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 24 Oct 2004 2:16 am

Tery here is the adobe reader link for t Trap's file
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html

Terry your

P4 is like like my RKR and you can think of this as your blues pedal.
Good for I @ root fret , plus II & V of your chord layout.
It can turn your IV with P6 into a sus4 too.
Other uses for sure but these are the main ones.

But I have also added a lever that drops the E's to Eb or 3rds to minor 3rds,
and I use that combination ALL the time. But this is not standard.

P 5 is normal, but I raise 10 C to D with it also.

P6 is your blues IV Pedal and totally indespensable.
It is much like AB down for E9 but bluesier for sure.
I tried a Fessie at ISGC with this reversed s2 E to Eb and s6 E to F, a very different flavor,
I plan to add a lever for that too.

P7 is sometimes called the western swing pedal.
It is putting you in a V chord on root fret. s 5 4 3 2 = GBDE or G6.
With a s1 D you get chimes, with an S1 G a full octave chord

If you add P6 to this chord it becomes a dom7th
but be carefull of that s6 note below it makes it a augmented

With a G top string it also gives you another C6 chord and octave up, strings 1-5
but over your 4th chord fret 7 frets back.

Ok your P8 seems to be Boowah or
Rasie the C to C# but should also
lower s9 F lower a 1/2 step to E
and
s10 lower C 1 1/2 step to A

Now this turns your I chord into a 6 chord.
But try this at the end of a P6 chord before you want to go back to I chord
hit that C# note with P8 on top of your P6 then release both. a great tension and release.

I have a BE lever that also raises the higher C to C# and us it all the time.
But you could try it on the P8 also. It makes the P6 tension more clear. But better on a lever.

The knee that lowers s3 is your major 7th lever, dropping the octave C to B

Try also adding this lever to a P6 for a #5 chord
(up 1 fret) for a P6, 5th chord blues resolve.
Root chord F open fret 5
P6 and maj7 lever fret 8
P6 only fret 7
back to fret 5 open.

Also a
P6 VII chord to I / root chord resolve
P6 + Maj7 lever one fret below root
and then release as you slideup 1 to root fret

Travis's P8 plus maj 7 lever is great for an IV to I amen ending, but a bit hipper.
(no don't get too hip in church

)

play 4 chord, drop back to 3 chord with P8 and maj 7 lever and then to I chord.
Makes me think Jerry Byrd.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 24 October 2004 at 03:40 AM.]

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 24 Oct 2004 5:55 am

Thanks a lot David, and all you guys for your help. this should help me a lot on my quest to be a C6 bluser.

Terry

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 24 Oct 2004 6:39 am

Terry, pedal 7 gives you an extension on the 7th chord w: pedal 5 down.
P7 brings string 3 up 1 tone or 2 frets to the tonic and brings string 4 up 1 tone to the 6th
P7 is also an extension to a maj7 and the open 6 tuning
example: fret 0 no pedals then fret 5 w: P7 strings 2345
listen and find the notes that have been repeated from 0 position
P7 might be too jazzy for ya' and sound unfamiliar but it's one the main pedals that have that C6 signature
as for P8, NOW that's one you've got to get down cause of the Boowah - you can replace the Hammond organism in Church w: that sound !
use P8 along w: Klever that lowers string 3 a half step or Klever that raises string 3 a half step (it's a major 3rd)
use of P8 is a fundamental tonic position
yes it's tonifies along w: that how low can you go Boowah

Last but not least the C6 tuning is 2 in 1
so far you understand that fret 0 is C6
well fret O playing string 9 as the root is an F maj7
that should boggle you up fer a while

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 24 Oct 2004 5:55 pm

Thanks crowbear

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 26 Oct 2004 12:10 am

hey Terry, here's one i forgot:

use P8 along w: Klever that raises string 3 a half step (it's a major 3rd)

stay in that position & push P7
it'll raise string 3 to a IV and you'll have an 11th chord
on fret 3 that'll be C11
that's a gospel chord for ya

you can get the same chord again by pushin P6 and add Klever that raises 4 & 8 a half step
on fret 7 that'll be C11
can also be subsistuted for a Gminor
[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 26 October 2004 at 01:15 AM.]

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 26 Oct 2004 5:32 am

Thanks Crowbear. I printed Traps chord chart off, so I got bunches of chords I can work on now.

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

Ernie Renn · Post by **Ernie Renn** » 26 Oct 2004 6:17 am

See if you can find anything useful on Tab from Buddy!

The "Blues to Use" course is out-of-print. BUT, Buddy agree to me putting the entire course on the site free! It's listed there, too.

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My best,
Ernie

www.buddyemmons.com

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 26 Oct 2004 8:52 am

Doug Jernigan had a course out called "expanding your knowledge on C6" that is almost entirely blues chord patterns and blues solos, some real nice stuff. Let me know if you can't find a copy.

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 26 Oct 2004 12:58 pm

Thanks Ernie. Lots of good stuff on that site!

Mark, Doug has that course on his website. thanks
Terry

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.