Playin with tracks?

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 6 Oct 2004 7:08 am

You guys that play with tracks at steel shows,with no other lead instruments on the track, do you play the melody of the song all the way through, or do you play the melody for maybe a verse and chours, then just play licks and notes and whatever comes to mind for the 2nd verse/chours? what's the best way, or is there a best way?
just curious, in case I ever start playin in public.

Terry

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 6 Oct 2004 7:22 am

Well Terry this is a good question..and I can see you have thought about it.

I would always prefer to play with a real live band with breathing musicians..and I don't care if they are the best in the world or just a tad better than the worst in the world..you can make it work..

but playing to tracks can sometimes be rather dull..playing every part all the time....for the entire tune..

I make no claims as to being the answer to the TRACKS prayers,but I do produce tracks that offer lead lines and solo's for the Steel with TAB , Telecaster Solo's to play behind and a few tunes even have my wife Bonnie singing lead lines..

I use these at shows I attend ( not many ) and I have sold a bunch on the famous EBAY as well..here is a link to my website for a listen..
www.bprior.com/tprior.htm

My feeling is and always has been that we must be able to play the lead lines and solo's but most important, back-up.

You're asking a good question and do start playing in public..regardless of proficiency.

t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 06 October 2004 at 08:27 AM.][This message was edited by Tony Prior on 06 October 2004 at 02:30 PM.]

ed packard · Post by **ed packard** » 6 Oct 2004 9:30 am

The problem with Tracks/BIAB use at shows is that one has to wait their turn, and then mostly play melody for their turn, at the tempo/key/style chosen by those in control. You can take care of the waiting issue if you have headset capability; that way you can play backup, melody, or whatever for as long as that track is playing. What is more, you can do this until you feel brave enough to turn on the speakers.

This also makes it convenient for someone else to try your setup without bothering anyone else.

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 6 Oct 2004 10:53 am

I've been playing along with midi tracks for the last 8 months or so since moving here, just to keep in practice, since I haven't found any band who needs a steel player yet (and consider myself "semi-retired" anyway). I follow the pattern I noticed in most of my early idol Chet Atkins' records...start out fairly basic and build on it. That way you don't get bored...or bore your audience, by just playing melody all through the song. You can find midis to just about anything on the internet for free, but you have to open them in some kind of editing software (I use my old Cakewalk ProAudio 9) to delete the lead lines, and fix them up. They don't sound too bad if you put a little time into picking some different instrument voices and mixing, or if you can afford it just buy some good prerecorded tracks like Tony's and some other Forumites record and sell for a reasonable price. If you care to hear what my free ones sound like, click on my Profile and at my website there are some examples on the Sounds page. On the steel demos, all the backup tracks were free midis. No, they don't sound like a real group, but they don't sound too bad for the price.
[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 06 October 2004 at 12:01 PM.]

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 6 Oct 2004 12:14 pm

Hey thanks guys. Jim, I listened to your "dream" clip. absolutly beautiful.
was that an MSA I saw on your website?
was that the guitar you were playin dream with? great tone!

You can find midis to just about anything on the internet for free, but you have to open them in some kind of editing software (I use my old Cakewalk ProAudio 9) to delete the lead lines, and fix them up.

do you have to know a lot about computers to do this? I don't know squat about computers, so is it somethin I need to just forget about? I'd love to be able to make my own tracks, but like I said I'm a dummy when it comes to computers.
Terry

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 6 Oct 2004 12:52 pm

Terry, thanks for the really nice comments. Yes, that's the old '74 MSA D-12, just went direct into my computer and recorded it with a free midi. I did put some time into improving the midi sound a bit, and replaced a midi track with rhythm guitar and added a guitar intro. The steel would've sounded brighter if I'd miked the amp, but didn't feel like bothering! I cut the first verse off the clip cuz I went a little off-pitch in one place....don't tell.....I'll fix it one of these days. The whole song is here http://jimphelps.com/sounds/dream.mp3 but if you're on dialup it'll take a while to download.

Anyway, I wouldn't say you should forget about making your own tracks, you could do it even though you're not real up on computers. It depends on whether you want to bad enough to spend some time and a little money on it. You'd have to have a recording program, they're not that expensive anymore, and if it can open midi files too then you could take these and rework them as the foundation, and even completely re-record the tracks if you like, or leave them. If your computer soundcard is pretty good, the midi voices will sound OK but if not, a midi module will make them sound much better. I bought my midi module way back in '97, it's just a cheap one and it still sounds OK to me. I think it sounds better than what I've heard from Band in a Box. All this stuff isn't really that hard to get set-up and going, but will take some hours to figure out. There are plenty of people here who'd be happy to help with any questions or problems, too.

If that doesn't sound like something you want to mess with, you can buy the prerecorded tracks. Of course to record yourself with it you still have to connect a recorder to your computer or get some digital audio recording software. You'd be able to do it.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 06 October 2004 at 01:59 PM.]

ed packard · Post by **ed packard** » 6 Oct 2004 12:55 pm

There is a neat & easy little program called MIDINOTATE that can be downloaded. If I remember it is free for the trial. Look it up on Google and see if it might be of use to you.

It allows download and modification of all the free MIDI arrangements on the net.

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 6 Oct 2004 12:57 pm

Thanks Ed, I knew there were some around, but hadn't had time to check them out. That would do it, Terry.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 6 Oct 2004 2:31 pm

Jim...that was great!

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 6 Oct 2004 2:49 pm

Donny, THANKS! I've been hanging around the Forum long enough to know you know your stuff and I really value your opinions.

Forgot to mention, Terry, that the reason I started playing with midis was because after moving here to Mexico (OLD Mexico, not New Mexico

) I figured it would be a while (like probably never) before I found any musicians to play steel with and maybe I'd play in some coffeeshop or someplace on steel with these tracks. So far there's not much interest around here, and that's fine, gives me more time to record for myself and work around the house. But it can be done, I think more steelers should look for places to play as a solo with tracks or with a rhythm guitar. Go for it.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 06 October 2004 at 04:44 PM.]

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 6 Oct 2004 4:26 pm

well to be honest Jim, I was suprised that was an MSA you were playin. the one I used to own was a 70 somethin model, and it was waaay to mellow for my liking. your's sounded great. I have about 20 or so Gospel sound tracks I've been playin with. that's about all I play anymore is Gospel. I got some from Erv, and some from Reggie and both are good tracks. no other lead instruments on the tracks. My problem, is I wouldn't know what to do if I found a program on the computer for makin tracks. but that's somethin I beleive I'd really enjoy if I could learn it. Is there a disc you can buy to run on your computer that explains how to make sound tracks? if so, I might buy one and see if I can learn how to do it.
there are several more songs that I'd like to have tracks to, and it would be neat if I could make the sound tracks myself.

thanks Ed for the link.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Of course to record yourself with it you still have to connect a recorder to your computer or get some digital audio recording software. You'd be able to do it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jim, what kind of recorder would I need to connect to my computer, and where do I connect it to? I told ya I was a dummy

Terry

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

[This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 06 October 2004 at 05:33 PM.]

Johnny Baldwin · Post by **Johnny Baldwin** » 6 Oct 2004 6:35 pm

Terry:
I use both Cakewalk and Band In A Box to compose background tracks. Jim's explanation of how you can download free midi songs and edit them in your computer is what takes up alot of my time. I've got a library of edited midi tracks now that could fit in a semi truck. Band In A Box is very simple, yet the screens which appear in the application look a little scary. Band In A Box is relatively inexpensive and simple to use. You merely type in chord names (C, f#, Emaj7th, Csus, etc.etc.) and the program plays a five piece band (drums, bass, guitar, piano, and strings) behind you. I suggest you visit George Wixon's website www.gwixon.com to see a great tutorial on Band In A Box. George is a fellow forumite.
Good Luck.

To Jim Phelps...Jim I listened to your version of "I Swear", well boy I SWEAR! what a beautiful rendition of that song. I listened to it the last thing I did before retiring last night, and listened to it again first thing this morning. Great job!

Johnny Baldwin

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Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 7 Oct 2004 10:02 am

Thanks for the link Johnny. that helps a lot for computer idiots like myself.
by the way, what is the charge for BIAB?
Terry

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

[This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 07 October 2004 at 11:04 AM.]

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 7 Oct 2004 10:32 am

Terry,

Been thinking about your last question about what kind of recorder...that's a pretty big question, as there are so many ways you could go with that. I was thinking too that BIAB would probably be your best bet for simplicity, versatility and relatively low cost, and Johnny beat me to the punch!

By the way Johnny, thanks very very much for your comments on my recording, you guys are making me think it's not time to give up yet!

Thanks too for your email Johnny, am answering it right after this.

Don't feel bad about not knowing a lot about computers. Nobody's born knowing about them, we all had to learn and you can too if you want to put a little time into it.

I think the best way if you don't mind really getting into it, is to buy some good digital audio recording software, a small audio mixer, and learn how to use them, even if you need to get help from a friend. If you really don't want to spend the money on that stuff or are a little shy of getting that far into learning the computer software, BIAB is probably the way to go, even though it's also computer software, it is said to be not too tough to get the hang of.

I'm editing this post because I checked into BIAB and found out some things I didn't know

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 07 October 2004 at 02:35 PM.]

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 7 Oct 2004 10:56 am

Very Nice!

James Cann · Post by **James Cann** » 7 Oct 2004 11:11 am

Well, I hope this won't sound as heresy in the church, but I've been looking forward to using karaoke tracks to explore particular songs of different styles. I hear all the time songs on the radio which I think would sound neat instrumentally, or which I would just like to try.

For intstance (and dating myself horrendously), how would Tommy Edwards' "It's All in the Game" sound?

James
Sho-Bud LDG

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 7 Oct 2004 11:14 am

Doesn't sound like heresy to me... I don't like Karaoke but Karaoke tracks and midi tracks are pretty much the same thing, and if you're going to use them for playing steel, why not? I've been exploring the classic pop tunes as steel instrumentals too, think it works.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 07 October 2004 at 12:15 PM.]

Johnny Baldwin · Post by **Johnny Baldwin** » 7 Oct 2004 12:50 pm

Terry:

Heres the link to Band In A Box. www.pgmusic.com The site sometimes takes a little time to load so be patient (lots of graphics)
Good luck, and if you have any questions don't hesitate to post or email me.

Johnny Baldwin

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[This message was edited by Johnny Baldwin on 07 October 2004 at 01:52 PM.]

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 7 Oct 2004 1:31 pm

Terry, I just checked into BIAB (thanks Johnny for posting the link).

The easiest and cheapest way to do your own tracks would definitely be Band-in-a-box, if you don't want to get too deep into computer recording. Check it out on their website and see if it might be what you need. Besides producing and playing the backup tracks for you, it can also record your guitar along with it, according to their website.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 07 October 2004 at 02:32 PM.]

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 7 Oct 2004 4:18 pm

Thanks for your help guys. I went to George Wixon's site and printed the instructions out on BIAB. I'll go to the BIAB website and look it over. I'll probly be callin on ya'll for more help later on. thanks again

one more question for ya'll. I went to BIAB and noticed their were several different packages/prices. would the $49 program be sufficent? because that's about all I'll have to spend on this thing. and it will be a couple of months probly before I can get it. thanks
Terry

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

[This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 07 October 2004 at 07:52 PM.]

ed packard · Post by **ed packard** » 8 Oct 2004 5:29 am

BIAB is a good choice. I have used it since version six, many many years ago. It is as simple or as complex as you wish.

Get hold of (E mail) Big Jim Baron; He handles the product and also creates tracks on CDs.

You might try on E bay for a copy; nothing wrong with earlier editions 8,9,10,11.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 8 Oct 2004 6:28 am

Terry,
I think the $49 deal is just for the Upgrade program.The cheapest first-time purchase is $88.00. I have just about everything BIAB has to offer and find the optional style disks to be very helpful. They have a couple you might be interested in: #18, "Praise and Worship" and ##20, Southern Gospel
Erv

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 8 Oct 2004 6:49 am

Thanks Erv. $88 bucks is a lot of money for somebody that's not even sure they can learn to use it. oh well, maybe one of these days I'll try it.
Terry

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 8 Oct 2004 7:51 am

Terry, let me tell you a little story. About 6 years ago I signed up for my first internet service, I'd never been online before and though I'd had a few old computers I knew little about them. I decided one day to try and make a simple website for my then-girlfriend (now my wife) at one of the free homepage hosts. I didn't have a clue how a webpage was made or how to do it. I heard Frontpage Express was a webpage editor and was included in Windows so I opened it up and tried to figure it out. I not only didn't know how to use it, I didn't even know what I should do. After 20 or 30 minutes I said "I just can't figure it out" and gave up and closed it. About a month later I decided to give it another try. I opened it up and kept messing with it, all of a sudden I got it. It's actually a basic, easy (and realy not very good) webpage editor, but it was greek to me at first, but when I made up my mind to learn it, I did. I bought some books on HTML and went through them and learned to make webpages without any editor, just notepad. Sometimes it would take hours to get a page just right. Now my website has even won some nice awards, not the free ones you get by signing a guestbook. Putting soundclips was the same thing, didn't work at first but by stubbornly persisting, I finally got it to work. Meanwhile while learning all this I was also learning more about how the computer and internet worked. I even took a test and passed it at Dell and went through their training and did Tech Support for them for a while. I decided to learn Macromedia Flash, a difficult program for making animation. I couldn't get it, I said "this time I'm going to need a class". Then again, later, I went back to it, "I'm not leaving this computer until I figure it out". Took several hours, but I got it. Now I can use it or Swish, a similar program. I learned to use Paintshop Pro and Adobe Photoshop the same way, and many other programs, just persistance.

On a more steel-related note, same thing with pedal C6th. I started out playing non-pedal C6th but never caught on to the modern pedal setup. One day I sat at my steel all day, just working on C6th, said I'm GOING to get this... and it finally just clicked. No I'm no Chalker but the basics finally sunk in. All it took was persistance and some time.

The point is, if I can do it, so can you. How bad do you want to learn....bad enough to sit in front of your computer for 3-5 hours, fighting with the program until you make it do what you want? That's not a lot of time out of a lifetime...if you're willing to invest a few hours and strong-willed enough not to give up, you can do it. Do it, it's worth it, and you might find out you're not as "dumb" as you say. [This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 08 October 2004 at 09:25 AM.]

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 8 Oct 2004 8:02 am

Amen Jim.....astute observations and advice! .....and include waking at 3 am with a solution to a problem you have been tying to solve...it's worth it!

www.genejones.com [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 08 October 2004 at 09:13 AM.]