Has anyone considered........??

Harold Dye · Post by **Harold Dye** » 6 Sep 2004 6:45 am

over the years I have read many posts here dealing ability, guitars and the like. One questions I have often wondered about is tone. Has anyone thought of that?? The only thing I really understand is volume.Once I get past that I am lost. Would anyone care to discuss tone...what causes it...is it the picker, the amp, the guitar, the weather,color(of amp or guitar), season of the year...what?? Can one distinguish between good tone and bad tone and if so, what is the difference. Please help if you can....I only know when I'me not loud enough...

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 6 Sep 2004 7:10 am

Tone is affected by, guitar,pickup,cords,electronics,speaker,room acoustics and PICKER,PICKER,PICKER.
Guitar amplifiers have tone controls to vary for the desired tone. I prefer a small amount of electronic delay.
I suggest you listen to other good pickers and try to adjust your tone controls to sound like them. I firmly believe that the "touch" with the right hand is the most important tone control in your possession.
You can have the best equipment in the world and sound bad if you do not develop that "golden" touch.
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it....JD

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 6 Sep 2004 7:11 am

Hi Harold, Not that I will be close to a real answer, but tone to me is made up of many things. To me, the final product is called tone. Starting with a great guitar with great pickups going through the volume pedal to a great sounding amp and coming out your favorite sounding speakers into the mix of the whole band, and you actually complement and blend into the overal sound of the band by not being too loud or too quiet or too bassy or too trebley or maybe not bassey enough or not trebley enough, in a building of certain acoustical properties. Each part of this equation is so subjective. If you are the only one who thinks you sound good, you might be in trouble. If the rest of the band agrees that you sound good, and the audience thinks you sound good, you are probably close to right on. Your sound you enjoy in your living room might not make it on the band stand. I like to try and look at the "overal mix" and try to fit in, yet not get lost sonicly. Thats just my opinion and interpretation of your question. Hope this helps.

David Nugent · Post by **David Nugent** » 6 Sep 2004 7:16 am

In my humble opinion, I believe the definition of "tone" is what your ears decide the particular instrument you are listening to should ultimately sound like. The "standard" for that tone in many cases seems to have been established early on by the innovative players of certain instruments. For example, to most Bluegrass mandolin players, the ultimate tone is that which Bill Monroe achieved on his early recordings. The result of this being that prices for original Gibson F-5's from the Loar era,(1923-'24), are now in the six figure range. Likewise, the tone of Earl Scruggs 1940's Gibson Granada banjo seemed to set that standard, and of course Buddy Emmons 1966 P/P tone. To paraphrase Scotty from his "Anthology of Pedal Steel Guitar" instruction book, "Some people like the Emmons tone, some like the Sho-Bud tone, some can't tell the difference." Ultimately, it is your own ears alone that will make the decision.

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 6 Sep 2004 8:25 am

After years of struggling myself, and watching great players on various instruments, I have a theory about tone... I think the true greats are really listening to themselves when they're playing. I know this sounds simplistic, but what are many of us doing on the bandstand or in the studio? Thinking about our new amp, knob settings, "what would Buddy sound like?", licks, positions, our "latest trick", if there's enough delay or too much reverb, where did I put my drink?, maybe I need a new pickup, what will the steel players in the audience think?, when is that G# gonna break... in other words, anything but the music. The real giants in any genre seem to have a fast track to their musical bliss- a committed connection to exactly what they're playing right now. We need to experiment and consider all that other peripheral crap, but I think more time spent really getting inside our own "inner tone" would serve us better in the long run. Anybody else feel that way?

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

Harold Dye · Post by **Harold Dye** » 6 Sep 2004 8:29 am

You guys may be on to something. I may have been concentrating on the wrong thing over the years. I have always been hung up on volume and therefore I think I throughly understand that now. I have made myself a promise to concentrate on tone in the future. In the beginning I always asked the band to "turn up" because they were not as loud as I, but the past few years that has not been a problem.

By the way, did J Garcia have "tone"

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 6 Sep 2004 8:42 am

Did Garcia have tone? He had just as much tone as he had talent.

He had more tone in his whole body than most people have in their little finger. One of the bravest people to ever get on a stage and dare to do what he did.

I knew it was all downhill for him when he lost the Gillette razor blade advertising account.
Will he be remembered? You bet he will!
We are talking about him now aren't we?
Now heres a question, Why?

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 6 Sep 2004 8:53 am

I don't know from nothing about tone, but I for one appreciate the simplicity of execution that JC did on "that" record.

He did something that appealed to the audience, and also something so simplistic that someone like me could duplicate. I have added steel tracks to more than one "budding" artists CD's that wanted something on it that sounded like that "great" stuff that Garcia did.

Thanks Jerry for giving me another dimension in my working days!

www.genejones.com

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 6 Sep 2004 9:11 am

I urge anyone who is hung up on tone to check out the "Session 500" thread under steelplayers. Just look at the vastly different settings the famous players used on the same amp. They all probably got great sounds, and that should tell you two very important things...

1.) THERE IS NO "ONE" TONE!

2.) THERE IS NO "BEST" TONE!

If you play great, no one (but you) really even cares about your tone. And likewise, if you play poorly, no one (but you) cares about your tone, either.

Get the "tone monkey" off your back, and concentrate on playing! Once you make it into the "top 50 players" category, THEN you can obsess over your tone. Until then, it's your ability that's holding you back, and not your stupid tone.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 6 Sep 2004 12:44 pm

Can one distinguish between good tone and bad tone and if so, what is the difference.

Good tone is the tone you like. Bad tone is the tone that you don't like. I really do believe it's that simple.

Some people can turn on a fuzz box and feel that they're getting "good tone" for rock 'n' roll. After working for Mesa/Boogie for 5 years, I have a very specific sound in my head that constitutes "good tone" for rock. If I can't get that, I'm getting "bad tone".

I'm sure that country pros like Bobbe have sounds that they strive for in the same way. To my ears, getting a good country tone from just about any pedal steel is almost automatic. I'm just not that picky about it. I think that every pedal steel I've ever played has "good tone" for country (a tone that I like).

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session SD-12 (Ext E9), Williams D-12 Crossover
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6)

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 6 Sep 2004 1:27 pm

.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 09:01 PM.]

Mike Bowles · Post by **Mike Bowles** » 6 Sep 2004 3:46 pm

To me the same tone doesnt fit all songs just like all singers cant sing in the same key I get a lot of different tones from my nv 1000 profex 11 and rp mullen

Tracy Sheehan · Post by **Tracy Sheehan** » 7 Sep 2004 12:54 am

Here is how i go my tone.When i retired from the road for good and moved to the Dallas Ft.Worth area i had not played in a country band for years.I played mostly the c6th and liked the more deep bass tone for chords,etc.Played most of my lead in chords.After going back to playing some week ends the band didn't like my bassy tone of course which i was used to.I took the steel and had Bud Carter put a Gl's66 on the country neck.I also took my peavey ltd 400 and ask Bud to set the knobs for a country sound.It sounded so tinny to me i could hardly take it but of course after some time i got used to it.So i do wonder if it is what one gets used to.Now i am going to get flamed for this but i could have been playing a banjo laying on my lap with a bar and the public would not have known the difference.Onky other musicians.IF you doubt this,just ask b0b.Tracy

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 7 Sep 2004 3:18 am

A "good" tone can vary quite a bit depending on where in the mix of the song you want the steel parts to sit. The tone you would use for a solo steel instrumental piece would probably be a lot fuller than the tone that would be ideal for playing fills in a full band setting. What works in your living room might not work too well on stage or in the studio, and you need to be willing to take advice about it from people who are considering the entire mix. Much brouhaha can ensue from this - the guitar player says the steel's too midrangey, the steel player says the cymbals take up too much treble, the singer says there's not enough vocal (of course) etc.