Why not install all split screws?

[Jerry Overstreet]

My D10 Williams, Derby, had all 20 of them from the factory. LeGrandes do too and several others, but some builders just put them in positions 5 & 6 on the E neck and just a couple on the C neck, even though the changer is worked for the full set. You can see what I mean looking at pics of some of the other brands.

I wonder why they don't just go ahead and fit the whole changer for them. It makes the guitar look unfinished to see 3 or 4 of them sticking out there and a bunch of empty threaded holes for the others.

When I found out my Zum was worked for splits, I got a bag of 100 stainless steel socket head screws for either $5 or $8 online. So cost certainly shouldn't be a factor.

I could see doing that if you're only going to tap a few holes for a guitar that didn't originally have splits just for the 5th and 6th strings etc. But if the whole changer is already worked for splits, why not just put 'em all in there to start with? I would do it just for symmetry.

Yeah, you can buy extra screws, but sometimes these are odd lengths like 7/8, 1 1/4, 1 5/8" that are hard to find and sometimes don't match the existing color and composition.

Besides the split function, they make solid positive lower stops for the changer fingers.

Just an observation and my pet peeve of the day.

[Jon Light (deceased)]

I agree. The end piece (that I don't have a name for) where the split screws reside on my Fessenden is very disruptive to remove. When I did so, it was not easy to reinstall and fully tighten back up (had to work the wrench around nylon tuners and rods) and as a result I had to retune the entire guitar--all 8 pedals and 8 levers. All to add one stinking split screw (because I was too stupid to do more of them while I had it off). How much difficulty/time/expense would tapping for all the strings have presented?
Yeah--I'll share that pet peave.

[Bob Knight]

JO,
I agree with you 100%. It might be a cost factor if one was producing a million units per year, but none of them are. I think that it would be to their advantage to fill up all the holes. I like you, think the guitar looks unfinished or is not all there.

Bob

[Ian Rae]

Now that's funny! When I built my uni 12 I filled up all the holes to make it look nice, but when I rebuilt the changer (to adjust the string spacing) I only put back the ones I use. The slight advantage is that they're easier to distinguish, and who's looking anyway?

[Jon Light (deceased)]

I realize now that these are two different discussions. All of my split holes are filled. Trouble is, my 12 string only has 4 holes drilled/tapped.

[Lane Gray]

My Zum has 20 drilled and tapped holes, but only had three screws until a few years ago. It now has 4.
I'm glad they're tapped. Never missed the other 16 screws.

[Mike Perlowin RIP]

Both my millenniums have them on all 12 strings, but I had to remove the split screw on the 11th string on one of them.

I have 3 lowers on the string. I don't know why, but the split screw somehow prevented one of them from correctly lowering to pitch. Once I removed the screw, the problem was solved.

This only happened on my white one. The purple one does not have this problem.

[Paddy Long]

Like Lane I only have about 4 on E9th and 3 on C6th actually populated with the screws -- makes it easy to find the right one to adjust rather than counting through the others.....

And think of the weight saving by not having them all in there hehe !!

[Jerry Overstreet]

Jon, your situation where you were just wanting to add a few splits for certain strings after the fact is understandable. I've done that too.

That's different from a changer that has been all tapped and drilled at the machine shop and all that's needed is a few screws. My gripe is with the builders, not the DIY owner/player mechanics.

It kind of hinders the universality of it. What if you don't play E9 or C6? Maybe you want to split 7 or 2 F.I., or all 10 or 12? A player may choose a completely different tuning on either neck. If they're all there, not an issue hunting them up or swapping around..

The point is taken re: locating the proper screw to tune with a full row, but how often do you have to tune a split?

Your guitar. Doesn't bother you, shouldn't bother me.

I just know if I was building guitars, they'd all be in there.

The main thing I believe most players are missing is the ability of that screw to act as a completely solid boss lower stop for all lowers, not just the ones you want to split. Anyway, I think changer end tunable splits are the least understood feature there is on a steel guitar for most players, but one of the most usable with a little knowledge about how they can work for you.

Kudos to Emmons for coming up with the idea, Ron Lashley or whoever it was....Emmons or no.

These are my old Williams and my current Zum. Do I need 'em all for splits? Not at the moment. But the time may come when I decide to do something completely different tuning wise. I have a 6 string Cougar that I worked for all splits. I don't know for sure what tuning will go on it. One thing's for sure though, I won't have to worry about having splits where I need them.

[Lynette Richards]

Costs a little more, but worth it.

[chris ivey]

what kind of machine screws are those. do they need a phillips head screwdriver? never seen them before.

[Jon Light (deceased)]

Either those are TORX machine screws or they are just allen screws with confusing reflections on them.

[Bob Knight]

I think they are reflections, look close at #5 thru #10 on E9th...........

[Jerry Overstreet]

Yes just reflections. They are socket head hex cap screws same as many other split changers use. Not sure if they use SAE or Metric.

[Jim Pitman]

Wouldn't it be nice to have a tunable raise stop on an all pull guitar. I don't care whos' all-pull you play, the ~ two feet of rod it takes to get to pedal one and two expands and contracts with temperature, and unfortunately, they happen to be two of the most used pedals.
A Kline comes closest or other rack and barrel types too with the stop at the end plate.

[Georg Sørtun]

Wouldn't it be nice to have a tunable raise stop on an all pull guitar.

Yes it would be nice, but the necessary spring-setup on pull-rods for raises to make it work throws builders off, me thinks.
Of course; if the mechanics along the entire pull-train is made to handle the load of heavy pedal-pushing, then no springs are needed.

[chris ivey]

these are clearly allen head screws. those others look different to me.



as for push-pulls and split tuning, i guess it's not that necessary really until you've mastered everything emmons played on one.

[Ian Rae]

I echo Chris's caution about bells and whistles, but in defence of splits, I have to admit that in the short time I've been playing a couple of them have become ingrained.

One is the whole tone lower on string 6 split with the B pedal, and the other is the vertical string 5 ½-step lower split with the A pedal.

[Lynette Richards]

Must be the angle. They are socket head cap screws.

[chris ivey]

i see now. thanks.
and yeah ian, i think splits are a definite benefit.
they should be available on each string.
great innovation that kind of moved the steel into the modern age.

[Bent Romnes]

I agree with putting all 10 on. I Iike it for the symmetry and knowing you haver a solid lower stop that rarely needs adjusting. also like to think of those screws not as "split" tuners but as "final lower tuners". they work fine on all lowers not only the final lower, like the 2nd and 9th string combination.

I use # 6-32 stainless steel socket head screws. I also include the hex key.

[chris ivey]

that changer looks like a pot o' gold, bent. pretty.

[Christopher Woitach]

New MSA guitars have them for each string, plus another obvious no brainer, pedal rods you can adjust seated at the guitar

[Ian Rae]

pedal rods you can adjust seated at the guitar

Wow - how does that work?

[Jerry Overstreet]

I'll let Christopher answer the question as it was directed to him, but the pedal rods adjustment can be seen at MSA's website.

I should state that not having all the split screws installed doesn't mean the guitar is of any lesser quality. Some highly regarded guitars do not. F.I., Fessenden and even Zum. I suppose they could have been when the instrument was ordered if required.

Some builders don't use them at all. Doesn't mean they're inferior.

[It was just an observation and not meant to deride any particular make. A pet peeve spurred to voicing from irritability due to bad weather, frozen/burst pipes and relatives' illness. Apologies for the griping.]

Bent restates my reference to them acting as lower stops.

Many players seem to get confused about how the splits work and how to tune them. I've had guys bring their guitars to me to set up the splits and/or explain they work.

If, as Bent suggests, we think of the rows of split screws acting as final or longest lower stops, that would take out some of the confusion possibly. F.I., with your pedals/levers tuned as usual, tune the split note, desired lower and raise both activated, with the normal lower tuning adjustment nylon nut, then set the final lower with the split screws at the end of the neck. Pretty simple when you think of it that way.

Of course, there has to be enough travel already in the linkage to make the longest lower change.

One reason why I think they should all be installed is the screws that are not involved with tuning a split note, can still be used as lower stops. More solid and direct against the actual changer finger, again provided there is adequate travel in the basic linkage.

In fact, a tad extra travel is necessary and is brought back up to final pitch using the so called split screw.

Charlie Stepp of Derby Steel explained all this and told me one day that this feature is the best thing to ever be put on an all pull steel guitar.