AB vs BC pedals interchangeable licks

John Goux · Post by **John Goux** » 21 Aug 2015 7:35 pm

I have a question about licks that are usually played in the pedals down AB position, and can also be played rocking the BC pedals(opposite order).

I've got examples from Emmons and Paul Franklin lined up to illustrate.

My problem stems from the licks having a pedal lift sound going from the 5th degree to the 6th degree in the middle of what would naturally be a pedals down position. That lift is not available in AB since the pedals are already engaged.
Some of these licks have the Maj7th note as well. They end in a typical degrees 3-2-1-6-5-1 lines.

The options I see are:
1. Move your foot rapidly to the C pedal and back to AB mid-lick in pedals down,
2. Move your foot to C for the 5-6 lift, and play the rest of the phrase with BC pedals emulating the standard AB Emmons lines. (It is not that hard to do but feels odd)
3. Stay in AB and slide the bar up and down 2 frets to emulate a pedal.
4. Play the entire phrase in open position. Use the LKR to lower the root to maj7, the A for the 5-6 degrees, and keep LKR engaged to play low 6th degree on string 8 down 2 frets.
5. The high 6th degree can be played on melody strings but that is a different sound.

I'm curious how you experienced players play these Mooney type licks.
Here are the examples on YT.

Franklin/Gill Foolin Around, at :22. :34 and end of solo 1:48
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WqUtRNnLLP8

Emmons with Tubb Nails in my Coffin, at 2:08
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qnEMOQTh27s

These are great performances!
Thanks in advance, John

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 21 Aug 2015 8:42 pm

John Goux wrote: Franklin/Gill Foolin Around, at :22. :34 and end of solo 1:48
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WqUtRNnLLP8

Based on the tone of the strings, and the fast bend B..C..B on string 3 using the B pedal, he is at fret 3, using the C pedal to bend string 4 up from G to A. Paul moves his foot from AB pedals to BC real quick!

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 21 Aug 2015 8:44 pm

John Goux wrote: Emmons with Tubb Nails in my Coffin, at 2:08
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qnEMOQTh27s

You see Buddy lean into it as he moves his right foot off the volume pedal way over to the left side of the guitar to hit the C pedal. He could do that on live TV because he was Buddy Emmons and we are not.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 21 Aug 2015 8:46 pm

And Mooney had 3 separate pedals to raise high G#, E, B. One string per pedal. he used both feet on the pedals quite a lot. Some of his lix can't be done any other way.

Ian Worley · Post by **Ian Worley** » 21 Aug 2015 8:59 pm

I'd say something simpler on the earlier parts, just working the A pedal at the 8th fret (that's how I would play that anyway). The end of the solo sounds like just B&C at 10th-->8th and a quick change to pump A&B at 3rd

On Drivin Nails in my Coffin, Buddy is two-footin' the C pedal. You can see him twisting to reach over. I have the F# on a lever 'cause I dig that sound, it's basically the same as just the A pedal 5 frets up though.

EDIT: Sorry Earnest, didn't see you'd already slipped another one in. My favorite part is Buddy grinning as Earnest says "Shot Jackson's looking for you" in the middle of his solo

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 21 Aug 2015 9:47 pm

On my Uni...I also put the E-F# on a knee. .. never could get the C pedal to work for me. .. except in a two footer scenario... which tempts me to tie it into P7 on my D10...so I don't have to try very hard to get to it. P3 can repurpose very easily on E9.. It may even make sense to run a 10 string Uni on that neck. ..and keep a full coped C6th neck too.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 21 Aug 2015 11:24 pm

Two-footing the ABC combination only takes practice.

Ian Worley · Post by **Ian Worley** » 21 Aug 2015 11:49 pm

A question for you BE history buffs -- this video is from 1961, right in the middle of Buddy's time with ET. When I first saw this video a few years back I had assumed he was using the now-standard F# on 1 (actually an A at the 3rd fret) in the opening lick of the solo, but then I heard his story about first adding the diatonic D# and F# (on 9 & 10) before his first recording session with Ray Price in '63.

Anyone know where that F# is in his tuning here? He's got ten strings, but he's not picking every note in that sequence. Is he just really fast off the C pedal? It's a lot easier to play that lick with the F# on 1. Just wonderin'...

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 22 Aug 2015 12:03 am

It doesn't sound the same on a different string.

John Goux · Post by **John Goux** » 22 Aug 2015 12:44 am

Thanks guys.
Buddy is using 2 feet!
Paul is really fast getting to C and back to AB. Those licks are all over the track.

So far there isn't anyone who rocks the BC like it was AB? The licks are doable with muting, and the foot motion is the same that Day setups use for AB licks.

Ian, toward the end of Paul's solo I went for that same chromatic minor/dominant sequence on fret 10 strings 3-5 and 4-6 but it is along ways down to fret 3. I had not yet figured out the second set of minors can be started fret 8 using LKR to lower the root. It keeps you on the same string set and in better proximity to the fret 3 arrival chord.

Kudos!
John

Ian Worley · Post by **Ian Worley** » 22 Aug 2015 12:44 am

Lane Gray wrote:It doesn't sound the same on a different string.

Sure, but that's not the point. What I was pondering is the lick he plays and repeats at the beginning of his solo, ~1:59-2:04. At the 3rd fret he's playing the C-A-G-C-A-G-C-A-G single line lick - the question is where in his tuning is the A (or F# at fret 0) since this chronologically predates the diatonic strings on 1&2 by two years?

Perhaps a better way to ask the root question is simply, does anyone know what his 10 string E9 tuning/coped was at the time when this was recorded in 1961? Was there another high F# somewhere in his tuning then, aside from the one on string 4 with the C pedal?

Sorry John, not meaning to hijack your thread.

John Goux · Post by **John Goux** » 22 Aug 2015 12:47 am

I heard ET about Shot Jackson. What's the inside joke?

John Goux · Post by **John Goux** » 22 Aug 2015 1:00 am

Regarding BE at the 3rd fret sequence. It really looks like he is moving the bar out to catch the A on the first string. Even his picking hand looks like he is using I-M-T.
Is it possible the TV clip is dated incorrectly? If the mythical innovation wasn't for another 2 years, something doesn't add up. Or he was super clean with that C pedal. It wasn't two feet this time.
John

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 22 Aug 2015 1:13 am

I'd read somewhere, but am almost home, so not gonna go digging, that what is now 1&2 started as 9&10

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 22 Aug 2015 3:49 am

In tCarl Dixons colorful history of E9 evolution written in a southern accent ...BE dropped in to explain the only reason the high f#and D# were on 9 and 10 was because he was on tour with a Shobud Permanent and he didn't have a blowtorch with him to mod the under carriage. .. and he also used it this way in a recording session before Shot Jackson could get around to the under carriage fix....but otherwise would have never have done it this way.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 22 Aug 2015 6:10 am

Which explains such a goofy move.

Abe Levy · Post by **Abe Levy** » 22 Aug 2015 6:15 am

I would imagine there weren't many knee levers under BE's guitar, this making it a little easier to get his leg over to the left. Not to take away from his playing at all - this is one of my favorite solos ever. The raw energy and speed is astounding.

Brett Lanier · Post by **Brett Lanier** » 22 Aug 2015 7:36 am

Earnest Bovine wrote:
He could do that on live TV because he was Buddy Emmons and we are not.

Ain't that the truth

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 22 Aug 2015 9:17 am

John Goux wrote:Regarding BE at the 3rd fret sequence. It really looks like he is moving the bar out to catch the A on the first string. Even his picking hand looks like he is using I-M-T. n

I think the video is a tiny bit ahead of the audio.

Ian Worley wrote:..At the 3rd fret he's playing the C-A-G-C-A-G-C-A-G single line lick - the question is where in his tuning is the A (or F# at fret 0) since this chronologically predates the diatonic strings on 1&2 by two years?

The A note is open (pull off from high C at fret 3). Also the middle one of the following 3 E notes is open E string.

Jerry Jones · Post by **Jerry Jones** » 22 Aug 2015 9:20 am

Ian Worley wrote:What I was pondering is the lick he plays and repeats at the beginning of his solo, ~1:59-2:04. At the 3rd fret he's playing the C-A-G-C-A-G-C-A-G single line lick - the question is where in his tuning is the A (or F# at fret 0) since this chronologically predates the diatonic strings on 1&2 by two years?

I think Buddy is moving the bar slightly back off the 3rd string to grab that open A note and likewise sliding off the 4th string for the unison E in the lick that follows.

Steve Lipsey · Post by **Steve Lipsey** » 22 Aug 2015 9:34 am

Some of us put E-F# on the vertical lever (for strings 4 and

, this makes a really nice equivalent A+B->B+C->A+B move possible for both chords and melody...and it includes string 8, not just 4. Just hold A+B, and go onto and off of the vertical while holding...

Ian Worley · Post by **Ian Worley** » 22 Aug 2015 10:11 am

Earnest Bovine wrote:The A note is open (pull off from high C at fret 3). Also the middle one of the following 3 E notes is open E string.

Jerry Jones wrote:I think Buddy is moving the bar slightly back off the 3rd string to grab that open A note and likewise sliding off the 4th string for the unison E in the lick that follows.

Aaaahh... that's it. Any insight on how 1 & 2 were tuned at this point in '61?

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 23 Aug 2015 11:57 am

I would like E-F# on a lever, but I don't have anywhere to put it. Then the talk of BE two-footing the C pedal made me think.

I can't even attempt that because I play Day and it's in the P1 position.

So I'm going to add E-F# to P8, unless anyone out there knows better than to try it.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 23 Aug 2015 1:16 pm

Go for it. The only thing that will change is P8 will get a bit stiffer. No biggie.

Dean Parks · Post by **Dean Parks** » 23 Aug 2015 6:36 pm

The Paul example 1 and 2 are done by hopping over to C pedal for that note, then back to AB to finish. Note that all other strings are blocked, and also the C pedal lick begins with the string un-pedalled, plus the previous notes are staccato. The foot move happens when no pedals are engaged.

Paul example 3 : the first ending lick is BC, the next one (next lower inversion) is same strings with no pedals and E lowered, which gets you down to the low frets, and time to get the foot back into the AB position again.

Buddy reaches over with the other foot I'm sure.

BTW Russ Pahl has E to F# on RKL, but that's not snappy enough for these moves; really handy for other things tho!

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AB vs BC pedals interchangeable licks

AB vs BC pedals interchangeable licks

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