Difficulty in playing in the key of E

Randy M Brown · Post by **Randy M Brown** » 3 Aug 2015 9:16 pm

Hi Everyone,
I am relatively new to the PSG and I am doing ok in most keys but have trouble playing along in the key of E (E9 set up). I don't know where to start unless I go to E on the 12th fret and that doesn't always sound so good. When I try lifting the bar off the strings to play a open E it is awkward and I can't slide into the E. (I also lose control of the bar at this point).
Any lessons or ideas on this subject would be very helpful and appreciated.
Really enjoying the PSG>
Thanks

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 3 Aug 2015 10:18 pm

Learn your positions on the fretboard. E chord is found open, of course. 3rd fret and 15th fret are E positions using the KL that raises the E's along with the pedal that raises strings 5 & 10. At the 7th fret is also a E position with pedals down. Add 12 frets and at the 19th fret, another E. String groups are also, a must. Here's some groups that'll get you going in the right direction. Start with these: 3,4 & 5 > 4,5 & 6 > 5,6 & 8 > 6,8 & 10 and even 4, 6 & 10. There's several more but this will give you an idea.

Scott Duckworth · Post by **Scott Duckworth** » 4 Aug 2015 2:55 am

I was going to say the same... learn some of the "alternate" positions...

Carl Kilmer · Post by **Carl Kilmer** » 4 Aug 2015 3:27 am

Hi Randy. Where do you live in Illinois. If your close enough
to Marshall, I can can help you some. I do a some teaching to
help others, and never charge anything because I enjoy it.
Carl "Lucky" Kilmer

Johan Forsman · Post by **Johan Forsman** » 4 Aug 2015 3:55 am

From a newbie: If you have the knee lever lowering the 6th string (I think this is fairly standard, mine is on the RKL) one whole tone (from G# to an F# in open/nut position) you can use this together with the knee lever lowering the E’s one half tone (on mine it is LKR). Using them together gives you an E major chord on the 5th fret, using string groups, 10-6-4 and 5-6-4 and 5-6-8 with the E note in bold/first in the grip. I like that chord because it is easy to remember and execute; push your knees together!

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 4 Aug 2015 4:22 am

Carl, I spent all night Saturday at the new Road Ranger truck stop. I'll be there (probably) NEXT Saturday...

Paul Wade · Post by **Paul Wade** » 4 Aug 2015 4:23 am

randy,

if your close to Chicago area i can help you out

p.w

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 4 Aug 2015 7:22 am

You can get a nice E chord at the 3rd fret with the F lever and the A Pedal. You can also get an E chord at the 7th fret with the A & B pedals.

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 4 Aug 2015 9:02 am

I have often considered detuning to Eb to get open E on fret 1... but. .. can also just slide bar over the nut rollers ... not a huge deal either way.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 4 Aug 2015 9:03 am

I never cared much for open strings, you can't get a vibrato.

Dick Wood · Post by **Dick Wood** » 4 Aug 2015 9:45 am

Couldn't you just grab the guitar and shake it Erv?

Ken Pippus · Post by **Ken Pippus** » 4 Aug 2015 9:56 am

Or flang the whammy bar?

Stephen Cowell · Post by **Stephen Cowell** » 4 Aug 2015 10:59 am

Use cabinet drop for open vibrato!

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 4 Aug 2015 12:25 pm

Dick,
I'm the only one shaking!

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 4 Aug 2015 12:49 pm

To a beginner, E chord is probably the most restricted chord to play in because just starting learning steel, most have to use a closed postion like 7th fret or open position on 0 fret or 12th fret to get any kind of melody or do a kick off, turn around, etc. Open fret playing as Erv said is sorta limited and the 12th fret has some serious overtones if your technique is not proper and that is blocking or deadening the strings behind bar. Once you learn your postions, you won't have that trouble. Seventh fret closed is probably the easiest for simple kick offs, according to chord progression. You can play a 1, 4, 5, kickoff there and never move the bar.
Also, learn to use your top two chromatic strings. Lots of melody on them in combination with other strings.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 4 Aug 2015 12:54 pm

You can play E, A, and B7 all on the 5th fret, if you want to.

E = lower your 4th and 8th string (with the knee lever) and pick strings 8, 7, and 5.

A = don't activate any pedals or levers and pick strings 8, 6, and 5.

B7 = press the 'A' pedal (to raise strings 5 and 10 a tone) and pick strings 8, 7, and 5

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 4 Aug 2015 1:15 pm

There are some sweet things to play at open (or no pedals) position. Try lowering the 4th string and letting off as you strike strings 3 & 4, then hit strings 1 & 2, the 4 & 5 with a pedal in, release a pedal. A few dozen Emmons licks in there… play strings 5, 6, and 8, then drop your thumb down to string 9 for the 7th of the chord, and add your A pedal for a nice E 13 leading into A chord with pedals down…

The chord position ideas are right on here, but don't overlook using horizontal harmony scales, i.e.; string 5 & 6 open, pedals down, pedals down at 2nd fret, no pedals at frets 5 then 7, pedals down at 7th fret, no pedals at fret 10 and no pedals at fret 12. (Noticing how this connects the chord positions already mentioned.) If you add in the "3 frets above" positions using the A pedal, you'll have melody and fill ideas for months. That pattern gives you harmonies in 3rds, use the exact same positions with strings 3 & 5 for harmonies in 6ths.

Johan Forsman · Post by **Johan Forsman** » 4 Aug 2015 2:16 pm

Henry Matthews wrote:To a beginner, E chord is probably the most restricted chord to play in because just starting learning steel, most have to use a closed postion like 7th fret or open position on 0 fret or 12th fret to get any kind of melody or do a kick off, turn around, etc. Open fret playing as Erv said is sorta limited and the 12th fret has some serious overtones if your technique is not proper and that is blocking or deadening the strings behind bar. Once you learn your postions, you won't have that trouble. Seventh fret closed is probably the easiest for simple kick offs, according to chord progression. You can play a 1, 4, 5, kickoff there and never move the bar.
Also, learn to use your top two chromatic strings. Lots of melody on them in combination with other strings.

Can someone please explain what is meant by "closed position"?

John Booth · Post by **John Booth** » 4 Aug 2015 2:34 pm

Johan Forsman wrote:From a newbie: If you have the knee lever lowering the 6th string (I think this is fairly standard, mine is on the RKL) one whole tone (from G# to an F# in open/nut position) you can use this together with the knee lever lowering the E’s one half tone (on mine it is LKR). Using them together gives you an E major chord on the 5th fret, using string groups, 10-6-4 and 5-6-4 and 5-6-8 with the E note in bold/first in the grip. I like that chord because it is easy to remember and execute; push your knees together!

I call this one the "Ballbuster"

Johan Forsman · Post by **Johan Forsman** » 4 Aug 2015 10:28 pm

John Booth wrote: I call this one the "Ballbuster"

Oops, since it takes some balls to play this thing one should perhaps better avoid that

Dieter Stoll · Post by **Dieter Stoll** » 5 Aug 2015 3:12 am

Johan Forsman wrote: Can someone please explain what is meant by "closed position"?

In standard guitar terminology, closed position means "not using open strings". A closed position chord is freely movable up and down the neck since it does not involve open (unfretted) strings.
Translated to PSG it means all positions involving the use of knee levers and/or pedals, or so I believe.

Johan Forsman · Post by **Johan Forsman** » 5 Aug 2015 3:18 am

Thanks Dieter, that makes sense!

...and I would assume reading the post above again and re-thinking, that closed in this sense also means staying at a certain fret

John Peay · Post by **John Peay** » 5 Aug 2015 5:13 am

Mark van Allen wrote:The chord position ideas are right on here, but don't overlook using horizontal harmony scales, i.e.; string 4 & 5 open, pedals down, pedals down at 2nd fret, no pedals at frets 5 then 7, pedals down at 7th fret, no pedals at fret 10 and no pedals at fret 12. (Noticing how this connects the chord positions already mentioned.

Mark means strings 5 & 6 here, not 4 & 5. (I use this ALL the time, Mark, so it jumped out at me!)

And Randy, get Mark's "Music Theory & the Number System for E9 Pedal Steel". Fantastic CD course that will teach you what's where on your fretboard...

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 5 Aug 2015 6:20 am

Johan Forsman wrote:
Henry Matthews wrote:To a beginner, E chord is probably the most restricted chord to play in because just starting learning steel, most have to use a closed postion like 7th fret or open position on 0 fret or 12th fret to get any kind of melody or do a kick off, turn around, etc. Open fret playing as Erv said is sorta limited and the 12th fret has some serious overtones if your technique is not proper and that is blocking or deadening the strings behind bar. Once you learn your postions, you won't have that trouble. Seventh fret closed is probably the easiest for simple kick offs, according to chord progression. You can play a 1, 4, 5, kickoff there and never move the bar.
Also, learn to use your top two chromatic strings. Lots of melody on them in combination with other strings.
Can someone please explain what is meant by "closed position"?

That's just a short way of saying with pedals down. I've always used that term when teaching which may be wrong terminology but works for me. Closed position on 5th fret is a D chord and so forth.

Tom Quinn · Post by **Tom Quinn** » 5 Aug 2015 6:50 am

I'd try to get used to playing open strings and be prepared to slide your bar over the roller nut. You can get a lot of hammer-ons and pull-offs there and that makes for great "Cajun" picking...

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Difficulty in playing in the key of E

Difficulty in playing in the key of E

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