Simontaneous travel

Bob Cox · Post by **Bob Cox** » 4 Jan 2004 7:27 pm

Is it posible to achieve on an emmons 3rd and 6th string starting and ending together on a pull.That is pith changing at the same time .My 6th is useually starting its change alot later than 3rd,and I have changed rods to try and correct this but it don,t help.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 5 Jan 2004 6:07 am

Bob,

It depends.

On P/P's very difficult to acheive. On LeGrandes with 4 hole bellcranks, same thing. However, on LeGrandes with 14 hole bellcranks, it can be made almost perfect; if not perfect depending on string gauges.

In fact THIS is the prime reason for using a bellcrank with so many holes in it. "Timing" of pulls is an art and not possible in many cases UNLESS, one has a bellcrank with (almost) infinite ability to adjust the location of the pullrod.

Nothing can make pedals and knee levers feel as silky smooth as timing all the pulls on that pedal or knee lever. Also (all else being equal), it allows the easiest pedal and knee lever action.

carl

John Fabian · Post by **John Fabian** » 5 Jan 2004 10:51 am

You can add a "geardown" shaft to easily achieve the desired result with standard 4, 5, or 6 position pull bars. This technique will work on most any ALL PULL guitar. Carter Steel Guitars has successfully used this technique for 10 years.

You need a second cross shaft connected to the "B" pedal cross shaft. String 3 activates on the "B" pedal cross shaft which also pulls the geardown cross shaft to activate string 6.

John Fabian
www.steelguitar.com

Bob Cox · Post by **Bob Cox** » 5 Jan 2004 7:11 pm

John that is a great idea.I didn't know you all done that on your carters. It has always bugged me to have the 6 kick in gear way after the three and I,m gonna try and put me a shaft in and try that.Is the three on the secondary shaft?And also do you need an adjusting or threaded mech to fine tune the syncronizing?

Dave Robbins · Post by **Dave Robbins** » 5 Jan 2004 9:22 pm

Bob,

are you referring to the push/pull guitar? There is no problem with achieving equal travel/timing on the LeGrande guitars easily and perfectly using the factory stock 14 hole bell cranks and requires no gearing down.

The push/pull however is another animal altogether, especially if you are also lowering as well. Mike Cass would be the man to ask in that case. He is a specialist on push/pull guitars.

Dave

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 5 Jan 2004 10:13 pm

I have seen and played a Carter with the setup John mentioned. Pretty clever and it works....al

------------------
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

John Fabian · Post by **John Fabian** » 7 Jan 2004 8:25 am

The 3rd string stays on the "B" pedal cross shaft. The 6th string pull moves to the geardown cross shaft( and also any tuning compensators). Tuning is done the same way you would without a geardown; ie, no extra adjustment is needed.

If you have a push-pull, you could machine a special 6th string belcrank with the rod puller hole made closer to the cross shaft and attach the rod puller at that point.

You might also try to find one of the original 3 or 4 position bell cranks that Emmons Guitar Co. used to have. These bell cranks had 2 holes on one side and either 1 or 2 holes on the other side of the cross shaft hole.

You would then see a big improvement in the synchronization of the 3rd and 6th strings' pedal movement on the push-pull guitar.

John Fabian
www.steelguitar.com

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 7 Jan 2004 9:05 am

John is correct,

I used one of these double hole bellcranks on my push pull, to "time" the C pedal pulls better using an extra rod to increase the travel of string 4, relative to string 5. I did not however, do it on pedal B to reduce the travel of string 6. But I am sure it would have made it better.

Using the normal "spring" method (P/P's) of timing is a hit and miss option at best I have found. Also, even though one can make it work, temperature changes causes it to not work ocassionally; if not often.

And while these methods do and HAVE worked, it is better IMO, if it can be done without using and extra (slave) rod or springs. This is easily achieved using a 14 (or higher) hole bell crank on LeGrandes.

Where this crank comes in particularly handy, is timing the "D's" on RKR where we are lowering the 2nd string a whole tone (through a half-stop D) and the 9th string a half tone to get a C# on both strings.

I have found this impossible to do without using a 14 hole bellcrank on a LeGrande. UNLESS, one uses the "split" tuner method that has been written about several times on this forum.

carl

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 7 Jan 2004 10:47 am

I play a Mullen U-12. I was able to time all three pulls on the "B pedal" so that all three strings raise from G# to A at the same time. No extra parts are involved.

This guitar has a triple raise, double lower changer. The bell cranks have five holes. Let's number the holes 1 - 5, starting with the hole closest to the body of the guitar. Here is how I have the pull rods hooked up.

String #3
Bellcrank hole #5 (farthest from body)
Changer hole #3

String #6
Bellcrank hole #1 (closest to body)
Changer hole #1 (closest to body)

String #10
Bellcrank hole #1 (closest to body)
Changer hole #3

Strings are .011, .020P, and .042

This combination gives me a nice, smooth pull, with everything starting and stopping at the same time.

------------------
Lee, from South Texas
Down On The Rio Grande

Bob Cox · Post by **Bob Cox** » 7 Jan 2004 6:37 pm

Dave I am playing an all pull 14 hole bel crank.Which hole would you place the 6th and three In.This has the orig emmons factory position at this time,but isn,t pulling in complete unison?<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bob Cox on 07 January 2004 at 06:38 PM.]</p></FONT>

Dave Robbins · Post by **Dave Robbins** » 9 Jan 2004 12:33 am

Bob,
you've got mail!

Dave