How do you tune your guitar?

David Friedlander · Post by **David Friedlander** » 7 Dec 2003 10:15 pm

I just got "tunitupA Guide for the adjusted tuining of the E9 tuning"- it's by Jeff Newman.
Basically, it tells you to tune B's E'S F#'s D varying degrees of sharpness ( between 6 and nine cents) and the G#'s and D# 4 cents flat.
Funny thing, the guitar soundes perfectly in tune if you do this.
Opinions?

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 7 Dec 2003 10:50 pm

Straight up all the way across. Always have. No reason to stop now.

It's called "Just Because" Tuning.

YRMV

EJL

Dave Horch · Post by **Dave Horch** » 7 Dec 2003 11:53 pm

Duck!!!

David - Make your ears happy. Just like Jeff, I sharp and flat strings so that they line up with the E and B strings which are tuned straignt up to a tuner. Other folks have other opinions, but this is the most "musical" way I've found.

Your mileage may vary. Best, -Dave

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Mullen (See! No "S") D-10 
<a href=http://www.davidhorch.com/music>Photo page</a>

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 8 Dec 2003 7:15 am

On E9 I tune E's, B's and D straight up 440 and everything else by ear. On C6 I tune everything 440. On E9 I would love to be able to tune the strings AND pedal/levers 440 like I assume Eric means, in fact I just attempted that last night. But it throws the whole guitar out of wack. I'm wondering if at the very least Eric tempers his G#'s a little flat?

Cheers,
Drew

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www.newslinkassociates.com
www.drewhoward.com

Bob Carlson · Post by **Bob Carlson** » 8 Dec 2003 7:34 am

Just like the Emmons Tempering Tuning Chart that came with my steel recommends which is the same way Buddy recommends on his Web Site. Works fine.

Bob

Nicholas Dedring · Post by **Nicholas Dedring** » 8 Dec 2003 9:04 am

I found that the Newman chart sounded really crummy on my instrument when I tried it out. I kind of mix and match. Some things by ear... some things just on the tuner, and I try to get pulls to compromise between straight up by themselves, and straight up in the combinations I actually use them in. F#->G# raise is tuned to match up to the third or sixth string, F lever is tuned up in conjunction with the A pedal and so on. It's better to just do it by ear, and sounds nicer, but I suffer from a serious lack of patience.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 8 Dec 2003 9:09 am

Bob, FYI
Just because the Emmons Guitar Co. Tuning charts are on buddyemmons.com, I would hesitate to assume Buddy endorses or tunes that way. In fact, he tunes very close to 'straight up' (aka 'Equal Temperament').

And, FWIW, I tune my guitar as close to Equal Temperament as I can stand, which is probably close to what my buddy Drew describes. There are many reasons for all this that have been hashed and rehashed to death. THERE IS NO SINGLE ANSWER FOR EVERYONE. How you tune your guitar is personal and it contributes to your own musical personality.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 8 Dec 2003 10:02 am

On E9th Pedal Steel>
Our open tuning is an E tuning with no pedals and a "A" tuning with pedals down.
We are so used to tuning to E 440 but the rest of the world is tuned to A 440.
So if you tune your guitar to E 440 and play an open A chord with pedals down; than you are out of tune with the rest of the world because you "A" note(chord) will be flat (Mainly because of the pull on the guitar when pushing pedals; will drop notes).
So since I and the rest of us are used to tuning to the E note on a Pedal steel guitar from the start; what I would suggest is to push "a" and "b" pedals down and while down; pick your "E" note(highest open "E") and tune it to 440 on your tuner. Now let off your pedals and play that "E" note again and look at where it now lays on your tuner(usually sharp to 440); and that is your "NEW" E note and go ahead and retune the rest of your guitar to that E note reference like your used to(and now with pedals down; your "A" note will be in tune to E440 because your pedals down "E" note is 440.
So the way it turns out for your particular guitar is how much difference there is in the way your guitar re-acts to the pedals pushed.
So now in all probability your open E reference is sharp to E 440; but your "A" chord is now tuned to "A" 440 and you will play in better tune than you ever have; if your not already doing this. It is ok to the ear to be slightly sharp.....but it is never ok to be flat. Sharp adds excitement; and Flat adds Death>to the music.
I alway tune my guitar by ear; as Tom Brumley once told me: "Ricky if you always practice on tuning your guitar by ear; than you are practicing on playing in tune and that is the goal here"!!!.
I do have the notes somewhat memorized where they lay on my tuner for my guitar, for the times that I don't get to make any noise at the gig or don't have time or can't hear. But finding out how your guitar tunes to "A" 440 is VERY important.
Another little practice thing I do at home when I ever practice; is I never practice with reverb and after tuning my steel; I will turn on my metronome that has a "A" 440 pitch to it; and I just warm up and play along with that "A" pitch going and you can play in key of A or E or D or C and I really listen to playing in tune with that pitch while I warm up or work on what ever.
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E9th Pedal steel tuning proceedure

First you tune your "A" note to 440 then with
pedals down tune your "E" note to that "A" 440
note. Now you have the new "E" note reference to
"A" 440.
Tuning the open tuning.
Tune the other E note(4and8)
Tune the G#'s (3and6)to E
Tune the B's (5and10)to E
Tune the F#'s (1and7)to B
Tune the D# to B(2nd string)
Tuning the pedals and knee levers
Tune the A pedal(5and10) to the E note
Tune the B pedal(3and6)to the E note("A"440)
Tune the C pedal(4and5)to the A note
Tune E lower knee(4and8)to the B note
Tune E raise knee(4and8) to the A pedal
Tune D note(9th string) to and "A" note
Tune D# lower 1/2 tone to 9th string
Tune D# lower whole tone to A pedal
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Ricky www.mightyfinemusic.com
sshawaiian@austin.rr.com [This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 08 December 2003 at 10:05 AM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 8 Dec 2003 10:38 am

I use an electronic tuner and tune everything to the 5 cent tickmarks. It ain't equal or just, but it sounds good to me and it's not hard to remember: <pre>1 F# 0
2 C# -5 D +5 D# -5 E +5
3 G +5 G# -5 A 0
4 D# -5 E +5 F -10 F# -5
5 B +5 C# -5
6 G +5 G# -5 A 0
7 F# -5 G +5 G# -5
8 D# -5 E +5 F -10
9 C# -5 D +5
10 B +5 C# -5 </pre>I also raise my 7th string F# to +10 on the lever that lowers the E's to D#.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 08 December 2003 at 10:44 AM.]

Dale Bessant · Post by **Dale Bessant** » 8 Dec 2003 11:08 am

I used to tune every string (opens and raises , lowers) with a tuner when I first started and for the first few years as a matter of fact but lately I tune my "E"s to A440 and then tune everything by ear, seems to me to be the best way for me to sound acceptable as I play along with C.D.s and do some home recordings,but I suppose it depends on your ears doesnt it..Havent heard any dogs howlin' yet anyways....and it sounds good to me....

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 8 Dec 2003 11:43 am

I do the same thing as Ricky.
If you can't hear it just do the Newman thing untill your ears adjust.

Bob

Allen Peterson · Post by **Allen Peterson** » 8 Dec 2003 12:28 pm

I tune using Ricky's method for the most part. I tune my A's to A440 and then tune my E's to A440, pedals down. Then I tune the rest by ear. The problem I have is with the G#'s. By ear I can get my 6th string to sound good, but when I harmonically tune my 3rd string to the 6th, the 3rd almost always sounds flat with the open 4th and 5th strings. Maybe it is just my ear. Maybe I should be tuning my 3rd and 6th strings with the pedals down.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 8 Dec 2003 12:30 pm

Drew. No I actually don't tune the G#s down at all.

I just don't.

My Dad tuned pianos, and I remember very well his tuning to "beats". I'd give anything th hear him run thru the thirds/fifths etc...

I learned my "lesson" when I worked with a guy named Harlan that used to tune his Yamaha MiniGrand to an "E chord". It SUCKED on anything but tunes in E. We used to sneak in and retune it.

I think that if I played a lot of open strings I'd probably "ear it" a little more.

I can't help but think that given the tensile qualities of metal strings, that once you got all the way through your "rack" you'd have to start all over again.

If you want to go nuts, here's why. The "pivot point" of metal string is not a perfect point. there is a "swivel" because of the diameter and molecular cohesion. It is only an infintesimal fraction of the diameter, but it is operative. If a string was a perfect "line" it would behave perfectly. It would behave independent of quantum physics. They aren't, and they don't.

Here's how I keep my sanity: Eighteen words:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Straight up all the way across. Always have. No reason to stop now.

It's called "Just Because" Tuning. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Once you are out of the open position, tuned tempered or not, your bar is automatically "Fishtailed™" by your between-the-ears mainframe, (or it isn't). You tend to learn how to adjust your bar for the "A pedal/E raise" or you don't.

There's no way to play these things visually and be in tune. It's from one tip of one ear to the other tip of the other one. Blind people can play these things. Sadly, deaf people can't.

They go for pianos and guitars and drums I think. Some fiddlers..

Hmm...

EJL[This message was edited by Eric West on 08 December 2003 at 12:32 PM.]

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 8 Dec 2003 12:37 pm

On E9th I tune all the firsts and sevenths to straight 440. I tune all the 3rds, forths, fifths and sixths so they are harmonically pure on E9th. Harmonically pure means NO beats. Or Just Intonation OR "JI".

I do this because I play at home by myself at it sounds great to me.

If I played in a band, I would make two changes. I would tune the firsts and sevenths (open tuning) to 442.5 and then JI everything else.

How come?

For the same reason Jeff Newman and Ricky Davis do it. Cabinet drop and JI tuning dictate it IF one wants to be in tune with the band and play right over the frets.

On C6 I tune it the same way as E9th, except for the 5th and 6th pedals where I tune the F#'s and Eb to 440 (442.5 if in a band). JI everything else.

Finally, if my ears and brain were as cultured (musically) as Buddy Emmons, I would do precisely what he does. I would tune everything straight up 440; which is called equal temperament or "ET". Plus, I would insist on playing nothing but a guitar with Zero cabinet drop. This would negate the need for having to tune the E's to 442.5.

carl

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 8 Dec 2003 1:44 pm

I've been happiest with the tempered tuning chart on the Buddy Emmons website. Seems to be the best of all the comprimises.

Brad Sarno

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 8 Dec 2003 2:36 pm

I'm with Eric. When I first started trying to play, I had no teacher to show me how it was supposed to be done, so I did it the way that made the most sense. Moving the bar ever so slightly, changes the pitch anyway. Just moving the bar the width of the fret marker can make a lot of difference, so it seems to me that playing in tune is all in the ears, once you get away from the open position.

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Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording

Garth Highsmith · Post by **Garth Highsmith** » 8 Dec 2003 4:07 pm

.[This message was edited by Garth Highsmith on 09 January 2006 at 08:32 PM.]

Bernie Straub · Post by **Bernie Straub** » 10 Dec 2003 3:09 pm

Do any of you use a chromatic tuner?

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 10 Dec 2003 4:05 pm

I use a chromatic tuner, yes. Most pedal steel players do. The exceptions are those who tune by ear.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 10 Dec 2003 4:47 pm

Eric has the answer for those who can hear what a beat sounds like...quote Eric West.

My Dad tuned pianos, and I remember very well his tuning to "beats". I'd give anything th hear him run thru the thirds/fifths etc... un quote,,,,,who knows better than a piano repair man? Huh?

Harold Rhodes lived by that theory as did Herbie Hancock and Joe Zawunol..no pianist ever used an electronic device as far as I know. It was "EARS" and BEATS. OH I forgot
Chick Corea as well,,,BEATS AND EARS.[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 10 December 2003 at 04:51 PM.]

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 10 Dec 2003 5:57 pm

FWIW.
"Tuning to beats" and "tuning out the beats" are different methods of tuning. Tuning out the beats will give Just Intonation (JI).One can tune to the correct number of beats per second to get ET, or to stretch a piano's tuning. Professional tuners know that the beats are there, and listen to the frequency of the beats to bring the instrument into tune. There are tables of beat frequency from note to note.

Hope this helps.

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 11 Dec 2003 11:05 am

Over a lot of time experimenting, I've evolved a tuning chart (for me!) that's fairly similar to the Newman offsets. I think it works because all of the guitars I've had have some cabinet drop, and I do like to be in tune with the band at various open (unfretted) chords, so it's a compromise. I'm very grateful for today's accurate tuners- so many of the gigs I play just do not allow for tuning by ear- nosiy backstage conditions, mulitlple acts and festivals where it's "set-up-and-go", soundchecks hours before the show in a completely different temperature environment, etc., not to mention broken strings on stage. I've tried, and for the life of me, I don't see how anybody manages to play tuned "straight up" across the neck- if by that they mean every string to "0" or the 440 mark on a tuner. Is that what you guys are actually doing?

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

jlsmith48 · Post by **jlsmith48** » 11 Dec 2003 11:34 am

Jeff Newman also had an earlier tuning chart that had the Es at 440. Did not like that one. I have used his new one since 95 and have never looked back.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 11 Dec 2003 12:57 pm

I tune my Es to 440 and everything else by ear (JI) to the common chords I play (not to beats or harmonics). While cabinet drop will cause my A with pedals down to be a little off, it is hardly noticeable, because I don't play with pedals down at the nut much, and everywhere else my ears adjust the pitch to the band (within my humble abilities), whether the pedals are up or down. With the Es right on, I can play them for guitar players to tune their Es to if they don't have a tuner (but you can do the same thing with straight up pedal-down A).

One of the benefits of playing through a POD is the built in tuner (which mutes the output to the amp), and the earphone jack, which lets me tune quickly by ear and play a few warm up licks to myself. If I don't have the POD or earphones, I have a chromatic tuner and know approximately where to tune each string on the meter. Basically tonics and 5ths can be straight up, thirds are around 438 (JI that errs on the side of sharp).

If I had a C6 neck, I would probably tune it straight up or very close. The uni I play presents a problem in that if it is tuned JI to the open E9 mode, it is neither JI nor ET for the B6 mode. But this does not seem to matter, because most of the chords I use in the B6 mode are dissonant anyway, which is the same reason people can tolerate ET for C6.

I've tried ET for E9 and can't stand it. ET sounds fine on keyboards, but the pedal steel is not a keyboard. It is an open tuned fretless instrument with an instantaneously movable capo (the bar) that helps avoid (at least on E9) some of the problems JI causes fixed pitch instruments like keyboards.

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 11 Dec 2003 1:22 pm

I do the same as Ricky. I chime all the combinations he mentions.