Did Curly Chalker Detune On Purpose? Here's Proof

Gary Walker · Post by **Gary Walker** » 5 Jul 2015 5:49 pm

This is something I have thought about doing for many years. First of all, I consider him among the top players of my life time.
His C6 tuning is 80% of what we all have with a few little minor things that suited his playing taste. The topic of this, is the pedal that moves the two "E" strings, our 2 & 6, his 1 & 5. We focus on the lower "E".
First, I tune by Band-in-a-Box. When he lowers the low "E" to Eb or D#, he detunes down to 436-436.5 range on purpose. He learned early on by detuning the dominate 7th note in a chord; it gives the chord a certain "GROWL". When he is going through his chord and pedal changes, that pedal stands out with it's own personality, I.E. the Chalker sound. It's unmistakable.
Now this is not going to work for a lot of players because of this pedal and it's usage with other changes, knee levers etc. His slightly different tuning and pedal changes worked around it with ease. I don't know how far back in time he made this change, but I love it.

Tim Russell · Post by **Tim Russell** » 5 Jul 2015 6:14 pm

Can you name a specific song that he plays where this stands out?

As far as the "growl" sound goes, I always thought Jimmie Crawford's steel had a tone like that, which I thoroughly enjoy.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 5 Jul 2015 6:34 pm

Gary Walker wrote:First, I tune by Band-in-a-Box. When he lowers the low "E" to Eb or D#, he detunes down to 436-436.5 range on purpose.

How many cents flat is that? The JI interval 7/6 is 266 cents, a third of a fret flat of ET. You can sound a harmonic about a quarter inch below your 3rd fret to hear it.

FWIW, I tune my middle Eb 12.5 cents sharp.

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 5 Jul 2015 7:07 pm

I read it to imply Chalker tuned the low D# 4 cents flat of 440.

b.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 5 Jul 2015 7:27 pm

I can barely hear 4 cents, Bobby. I'm probably that far off with every note I play.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 5 Jul 2015 8:09 pm

I think it's somewhere around 12 cents flat.

I calibrated my Korg tuner to 436, tuned my Tele's A string to 0 with that calibration, then re-calibrated the tuner to 440 and checked the string and it came to about 12 cents flat.

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 5 Jul 2015 8:50 pm

Forgive me. I'm brain dead. I think Brint answered this one.
I was thinking 440 cents.

Not HZ. I've been up way too long.

b.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 6 Jul 2015 8:26 am

i always felt curly's pitch was questionable, but in a way that definately suited his pesonality, so it never bothered me.
on the other hand, jimmy day's pitch on some early ray price recordings unfortunately turned me off to listening to him.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 6 Jul 2015 8:40 am

jimmy day's pitch on some early ray price recordings unfortunately turned me off to listening to him.

chris, dare I say you missed a lot...

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 6 Jul 2015 9:42 am

i liked shotgun willie, but still heard pitchiness.

Craig Baker · Post by **Craig Baker** » 6 Jul 2015 9:54 am

Most of us have played Crazy Arms a zillion times.
Am I the only one who hears the last two chords Jimmy played on the ending of the original hit as being very flat?

Great song and I don't hear anything else flat, but the ending get's me every time. See if you hear it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAvRE9eRNF0

Craig

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 6 Jul 2015 10:05 am

Craig Baker wrote:Most of us have played Crazy Arms a zillion times.
Am I the only one who hears the last two chords Jimmy played on the ending of the original hit as being very flat?

It's as flat as the vocals that precede it.

Craig Baker · Post by **Craig Baker** » 6 Jul 2015 11:24 am

b0b,
Go to the head of the class.

Craig

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 6 Jul 2015 12:22 pm

Sounds like the next to last triad as JD slides up is way flat but corrected on the last triad with the pedals down. But... it's raw country gold with no autotune (Yay)!

At least the intro is not one fret off like this one from George Jones:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZza3CTZFEk

James Kerr · Post by **James Kerr** » 6 Jul 2015 12:24 pm

What am I reading here, are we now admitting some of our hero's had feet of clay? and not Gods after all.

James.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 6 Jul 2015 12:58 pm

I think it's quite likely that Chalker tuned his Eb very flat on purpose. Like I said, there is a minor third harmonic that's over 30 cents flat. He may have stumbled upon it trying to form an in-tune diminished chord with P5+P6, one of the trickiest aspects of C6th tuning.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 6 Jul 2015 1:46 pm

I don't know what to think, here. Yeah, Day was as flat as a board on some of that early stuff, but I blame some of that (maybe, a lot of it) to the crappy early steel guitars. Also, remember...this wasn't exactly a mature (decades of experience) Jimmy playing back then. Guys back then were too busy blazing trails to be persnickity about tuning. $:\$

Personally, I attribute Curly's sound to him, not the way he tuned. Anyhow, any dedicated reader here knows "growl" is often attributed to a particular guitar, type of pickup, or framerantz. Whatever it is, I rate "growl" with that magic "tone" so many are on an endless safari for. IMHO, once you really learn to play, all that nebulous stuff becomes secondary to learning more, and playing better.

The weakest link is between the seat and the steel.

John Booth · Post by **John Booth** » 6 Jul 2015 2:53 pm

Greg Cutshaw wrote:
At least the intro is not one fret off like this one from George Jones:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZza3CTZFEk

Wow, that was obvious and I never caught it before
Lol

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 6 Jul 2015 6:16 pm

I don't know how many frets off this is, but I prefer the real music like this, over todays sterile Nashville crap any day...

Ga McDonnell · Post by **Ga McDonnell** » 7 Jul 2015 4:49 am

It’s always intrigued me how the world of pedal steel gets so fanatical about getting the open notes, pedals and levers tuned to miniscule preciseness, and then can’t find the right places on the fretboard when they go to actually playing the thing.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 7 Jul 2015 9:07 am

Yeah, Day was as flat as a board on some of that early stuff, but I blame some of that (maybe, a lot of it) to the crappy early steel guitars. Also, remember...this wasn't exactly a mature (decades of experience) Jimmy playing back then.

Is this to say that the JD pitch thing resolved itself as time went by, and in your opinion(s) how long did it take for this to occur?

Roger Shackelton · Post by **Roger Shackelton** » 7 Jul 2015 11:14 am

Most people didn't know about
"Cabinet Drop" until tuning meters arrived on the scene.

Roger Shackelton · Post by **Roger Shackelton** » 7 Jul 2015 11:14 am

Most people didn't know about
"Cabinet Drop" until tuning meters arrived on the scene.

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 8 Jul 2015 8:19 am

Greg Cutshaw wrote:Sounds like the next to last triad as JD slides up is way flat but corrected on the last triad with the pedals down. But... it's raw country gold with no autotune (Yay)!

At least the intro is not one fret off like this one from George Jones:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZza3CTZFEk

I don't think that anyone can say that the steel break on this version is pitchy!! I remember falling out of my chair when I first heard this track many years ago in the early 70's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sZRWlPV1ns

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 8 Jul 2015 8:44 am

ken, that's one of the best classic mindblowers from buddy!
granted lots of early country recordings had vocals and steels that were more pitchy and whiny and probably what turned lots of people off to country music.
more sophisticated musicians like buddy emmons brought that under control and into a new age by having a great ear and offering that higher quality of tone and execution.

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Did Curly Chalker Detune On Purpose? Here's Proof

Did Curly Chalker Detune On Purpose? Here's Proof

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