I Hate That Pedal Steel Lick...

Terry Edwards · Post by **Terry Edwards** » 30 Oct 2003 2:04 pm

...You know, the "unison notes lick". The one where a note is struck and you quickly slide up to the same note on an adjacent string and then again slide up to the same note very quickly on another adjacent string, as many times as you can. sounds like someone slapping a whammy bar a few times on a stratocaster!

I hate that lick! I know it's probably just me. I have heard it done by many pros but it has become a novelty/cliche that irritates me!

OK, I feel better now.

I like all the other licks (about a gazillion) available on a steel guitar neck. It's just that one I don't like. I realize I'm probably in the minority here, but I even like Steel Guitar Rag!

Anybody else have a lick that they just don't like?

Terry

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 30 Oct 2003 2:12 pm

Man Terry, I love that ricochet lick. Loyd
even has a Dobro instrumental totally based on that lick I believe the name of the song is "Ricochet".

Maybe you just tire of too much of the same thing. It is a pretty heavily used lick these days.
Jerry

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 30 Oct 2003 2:34 pm

It is a "lick" that was way overused 7 years ago, and it's still here! I think it's a crutch for studio players that have no imagination and can't think of anything else to do. This "lick" takes absolutly no talent or expertise to play and can be played well by any beginner, any time in any key at any stage of the steel players career. Do I hate this "lick"? What do you think, irritating to say the least. Yes Terry, you are correct again like always.

This is just another of my weird personal opinions that I get so very much joy in posting! I expect hardly anyone to agree with me, but that's OK, I respect your tastes and opinions, and also love hearing about them.

Grand Wizard Poobah.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 30 Oct 2003 2:36 pm

The first person I ever heard do it was Lloyd Green. I liked it at first. I quickly grewe sick of it myself. I wish Lloyd would reconsider what I feel is its over use.

I love Lloyd, and I consider him to be one of the truly all time greatest steel guitarists in the world. But I simply do not care for that lick.

carl

Al Vescovo · Post by **Al Vescovo** » 30 Oct 2003 2:49 pm

If only "that lick" could be played in tune every time.--- Just kidding[This message was edited by Al Vescovo on 30 October 2003 at 02:50 PM.]

Jim Eller · Post by **Jim Eller** » 30 Oct 2003 3:52 pm

Your dumbness here.

Can someone tab what you are talking about.

Thanks.

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 30 Oct 2003 4:05 pm

Jim, it's easier to describe.

It's the same note, same octave, played on different strings. If written in standard music notation it would be the same note repeated about five times.

A piano player would put one finger on one key and play it over and over.

On steel we play it on different strings, so it sounds slightly different due to string guages.

example:
On E9 , in C :
1st fret 5th string, then 3rd fret of the 6th string (B pedal down), then 6th fret 7th string, followed by 8th fret-8th string, then 10th fret-9th string, then 13th fret 10th string.

Of course you can use only fragments of it, or add/remove pedals and re-adjust the bar ed fret as needed.

It's a good exersize, and like any spice, tasty if not over-used.

I often use a two note version of it.

Colm Chomicky · Post by **Colm Chomicky** » 30 Oct 2003 4:18 pm

Ain't anyone worried that by publishing this post some beginner like me could latch on to the lick and....well, someday this beginner could end up filling in fer somebody else at the VFW gig, and yall just happen to be there just trying to enjoy a beer, only to be aggravated to the point of no return?

Mike Sweeney · Post by **Mike Sweeney** » 30 Oct 2003 4:23 pm

Well Joey, You did remember didn't you.

Mike Weirauch · Post by **Mike Weirauch** » 30 Oct 2003 4:55 pm

Lloyd Green asked if I would post this response.

"Mr. Dixon, it may have escaped your attention but I retired in 1988, playing very rarely in public during the subsequent years other than St. Louis. I'm afraid your disparagement is directed at the wrong person or persons for overuse of the "ricochet" effect on the steel since I have only recently returned to the recording arena.
While I admit to giving birth to the idea I
don't believe I have overused the lick nor, in my view, do I think I should be held accountable for those who do abuse or play it ubiquitously.
If you had heard my newest CD, "Revisited", you would have listened in vain for that heretical lick. I only use it with discretion and taste, to sometimes tie phrases together, but not as an entity of it's own, except on two occasions where I played it as a signature, "Ricochet" and as the ending on another tune I wrote, "All-Nite Juke", both from my "Lloyd's of Nashville" album in 1979.
The lick that's used on many recordings of the past 15 years is also one I was using on records in 1964. That is the full tone unison raise of string 1 to match 3. I played it on a number of records for about 3 months before I took it back off, realizing the very limited variability and one lick status of it. So neither you nor B. Seymour can hold me accountable for the modern incarnation of that one either. Besides, I would never play it the way it is used on modern recordings,you will have to hold those doing most of the records accountable for that. Again, I use a better imagery for that one in one segment of "Ashokan Farewell" (the 7th bar of the third steel passage), which, in my view, is a more advanced concept of that figure; and there are numerous other usages of that particular unison combination that I have at my command. However, they involve raising the 1st string 1/2 tone with a knee lever and using a bar slant for the other 1/2 tone interval. This effectively opens the door to an entire panorama of 1st and 3rd string unison and offspring ideas,hardly any of which are accessible with the typical whole tone lever raise.
So, essentially, Mr. Dixon, I refuse to disavow my culpability for these two benign steel guitar patterns. Hell, I think they were pretty clever in their infancy, if
not in their maturity."

Lloyd Green

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 30 Oct 2003 5:05 pm

Colm,
If I heard you playing that lick, and knew it was because of something I posted, I'd smile and be proud.

Lloyd's comment:

"I only use it with discretion and taste"

says it all.

Mike, I remember a hell of a lot of stuff from you! Thanks.

Bill Ferguson · Post by **Bill Ferguson** » 30 Oct 2003 5:34 pm

Get um Lloyd

Bill Ferguson

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http://www.steelpicker.com/pictures/Carter-Peavey.jpg

Stop worrying about what makes a steel work and concentrate on how YOU make it sound"

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 30 Oct 2003 6:27 pm

Well Mr G. W. Poobah.........I still like the
lick and wish I had done it first. I also must state that it calls for a certain amount of knowledge of the fretboard to go from one end of the neck to the other from a
non-predetermined fret or string while jamming away with no pre-conceived notion as to where you are going next and hit that same note all the way up without a blunder pedals up or down maybe with a knee thrown in for good measure. It might not be
Goooooooooood but it is good in my opinion.
Back 'atcha G. W. P.
Jerry

[This message was edited by Jerry Roller on 30 October 2003 at 06:43 PM.]

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 30 Oct 2003 6:45 pm

see below[This message was edited by Jim Palenscar on 30 October 2003 at 06:47 PM.]

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 30 Oct 2003 6:47 pm

I LOVE THE LICK! Anything played from the heart is beautiful~~~

Gene H. Brown · Post by **Gene H. Brown** » 30 Oct 2003 7:06 pm

I don't understand why someone would make negative comments about Lloyd's playing. He is one of the nicest people in the business and one of the greatest and most inventive steel players known. I personally do not believe he deserves this criticism over a lick that (I would bet money on} evryone who's played the steel guitar has tryed once or twice. JMHO
Gene H. Brown

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If You Keep Pickin That Thing, It'll Never Heal!

Nick Reed · Post by **Nick Reed** » 30 Oct 2003 8:19 pm

Could someone please post the lick as an MP3 downlown for listening, so some of us who are not so intelligent can hear what the hell you guys are talking about. Nick

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 30 Oct 2003 8:25 pm

I like it. In fact, I've kind of adopted it on C6 and use it periodically as a way to move from one zone to another in jazz soloing. Got the idea from Lloyd of course. Hey, thanks, Lloyd!

jc

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 30 Oct 2003 9:13 pm

Bobbe wrote:

It is a "lick" that was way overused 7 years ago, and it's still here! I think it's a crutch for studio players that have no imagination and can't think of anything else to do. This "lick" takes absolutly no talent or expertise to play and can be played well by any beginner, any time in any key at any stage of the steel players career.

I think Bobbe's thinking of a different lick,(the F# to G# change) than the one Terry Edwards wrote about.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 31 Oct 2003 2:57 am

Well I would state that I would be proud to play any lick smooth as silk that anyone claimed was a Loyd copy !

Maybe we should all see if we can play it first and then decide if we want to use it or not.After all..ain't nuthin wrong with extra bullets in the arsenal...

By the way, this little lick is especially effective when playing Blues on the Lower Ten...

I ain't no Grand Pu-Bah..just an entry level Pu-Bah..

happy friday

tp

Mike Weirauch · Post by **Mike Weirauch** » 31 Oct 2003 4:54 am

Lloyd asked for space one..more..time...

"The entire purpose in using the so called "ricochet" lick was perhaps best stated to me by someone who is both highly intelligent and immensely musically gifted, Jerry Douglas.
Sometime in the 1980s, after Jerry and I had done some recording together with Ricky Skaggs and The Whites he called one day and asked if I minded if he added this idea to his playing style, explaining his thoughts. He felt and feels this pattern is a helpful "bridge" and "tie", enabling one to get from one part of a song to another in a smoother, more fluid fashion than the jagged manner of abruptly making the change.
He is correct, and that is the way he incorporates the pattern and it's the way I use it. He and I both use only bits and parts of the equation for it's intended purpose, not the whole phrase. You only use as many unison notes as it takes to cross the "bridge". And like any other lick, our recurrent recording studio theme is, as always, the caveat that "less is more".
I, of course, gave Jerry Douglas my unconditional approval. Not that he needed it, but it demonstrated to me what a thoughtful, warm, self-confident human being he was to even ask for my approval.
Jim Cohen and a few others posting on this little incendiary issue intuitively understand how to use the phrase in music, and it is, indeed, merely one small bit of knowledge to add to the musical vocabulary enabling one to play more fluently."

Lloyd Green

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 31 Oct 2003 5:17 am

I happen to like the lick and still use it thanks to Mr. Green. It's called a signature lick I believe and don't we all wish we had been the first to use it? I'll say one thing for Lloyd Green, when he does say something on this forum he gets his point across and eloquently.

Steve Stallings · Post by **Steve Stallings** » 31 Oct 2003 5:23 am

I use this lick and fail to see the sky falling as a result. Lloyd Green is a legend, rightfully so. Paul Franklin has done the lions share of recordings for some time now and uses this lick as well. I find Pauls playing to be one of the best things about contemporary country music. I also believe him to be one of the most gifted and imaginative players to ever hold a bar.

I wish I had a tenth as much talent as either of these two fine gentleman.

I'm leaving in a few hours to play this weekend. I'll try to play this lick with special feeling just for those of you who don't care for it

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God Bless,
Steve Stallings

www.pedalsteeler.com

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 31 Oct 2003 6:55 am

Guys I have to defend something that was said. I understand that Lloyd is upset at his lick being ridiculed, and rightfully so. But there was no need to dis the F# to G# change.

I hope he understands that I realize that by having the change and slanting the bar with both the half and whole tone raise, I have more intellectual options.

The F# to G# change has much more to offer than just the one unison lick. I doubt very seriously if players whom I believe truly play with extreme intelligence, Buddy, Tommy, Rugg, etc. see it as a shallow one lick change. Players like me who enjoy playing more complex chord structures do gain alot from having this change. Slanting the bar does not give the full harmonic possibilities.

players eventually have to play the licks (Lloyds or the F# to G#) as I have when the artist and producer plays the demo and says I love the steel part. I have to admit I never say no because I like the phone ringing.

Also I agree that unisons are a great connecting source and know one used it or hid it better than the soulful Jimmy Day.

Paul

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 31 Oct 2003 7:01 am

I apologize for all the spelling and punctuation mistakes.