2-hole idle bellcrank on P/P C-pedal

[Rainer Hackstaette]

I used to have an Emmons S-10 P/P that had an idle 2-hole half bellcrank on the C pedal crossbar for the 5th B-C# pull. I can't remember how this arrangement worked. (Getting old is for the birds!) Could someone refresh my memory, please? A photo or schematic drawing would be great, too.

There was a post/thread about it some months ago, but I cannot find it.

Much obliged,
Rainer

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<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#0000FF">Remington D-10 8+7, Sierra Crown D-10 gearless 8+8, Sierra Session S-14 gearless 8+5, '76 Emmons D-10 8+4, Peavey Session 400 LTD</FONT>

[C Dixon]

Rainer,

I am not sure what you mean when you say an "idle" bellcrankl then say "for the 5th string B to C# pull". If that bellcrank pulls the string at all, it is not idle to my way of thinking.

So, not really knowing, I will just comment on what I do know. As you are aware, all bellcranks on the original P/P Emmons were single hole bell cranks; for use either with raise rods or "drop" rods (as Emmons called them).

This, from the beginning, was fraught with the inevitable "timing" problem that all PSG's exhibit, sooner or later. This due of course to the fact, different pulls on the same crossbar rarely travel the same amount.

While some of this can be alleviated at the changer with its three raise holes, this usually is not sufficient. So innovative players and those who work on them, have come up with various ways to get around this.

One of the ways, is to drill another 1/4" hole closer to the crossbar axle in the bell crank. In the case of the C pedal, this then makes for a better "timed" pull on the long throw E to F# change versus the normal throw B to C# change. The latter pull rod is installed in the newly drilled hole. So it travels less than the 4th string for a given amount of C pedal movement.

This is possibly what that bell crank was for. However there is another thing that a number of P/P owners did (I included) and that is to drill a 2nd hole in the B to C# bell crank on the A pedal (not the C pedal), to restrict the G# to F# (6th string lower) pull; WHEN the A pedal was engaged so as to create an A7th chord.

But I never saw this on the C pedal. I did see the following once. A bellcrank was drilled with a second hole and used on an "idler" crossbar closer to the changer. This was configured as a "travel increaser" arrangement; to better time the E to F# and B to C# changes on the C pedal.

The pull rod for the E to F# change from the C pedal was connected to the newly drilled hole and then a second rod from the top whole went on to the changer.

It simply made a given travel at the C pedal on the 4th string, be greater because of this setup.

Outside the above I have no idea why that bellcrank (on you guitar) is there configured as it is.

carl

[Glenn Austin]

That bell crank is not there to facilitate changing to the Day setup?

[Rainer Hackstaette]

Carl,

I fully understand your confusion about this mystery bellcrank as it eaquals my own. As I said my memory is very fuzzy about this.

By "idle" I meant that the half bellcrank with the second swivel closer to the shaft was not screwed to the crossbar. It moved freely.

What I am reasonably positive about is:
- it had nothing to do with a 6 string lower G#-F# that could be split with the A pedal. The guitar did not have that lower until I installed it on a lever. I did not install a split, because I did not know that was even possible.
- there was no additional idle crossbar. There were 6 crossbars for the pedals and 4 for the knee levers.

I am pretty sure that the idle 2-holer was for the 5th string C pedal and A pedal pull. I think the pull rod for string 5 went from the changer to the C pedal crossbar and stopped there. A second, shorter pull rod started at the C pedal crossbar and went on to the A pedal crossbar. This, somehow, involved the 2-hole bellcrank as a sort of slave pull. How this worked - given that the bellcrank was not fastened - baffles me. But work it did.

My present D-10 doesn't have this. Here there is just one pull rod for the B-C# that goes from the changer to the C pedal and on to the A pedal. The A pedal pull is then tuned with a halftone tuner.

It could be that the whole mechanism involved the 4th string pull rod on its way from the C pedal to the F-lever cross shaft, but I seriously doubt it.

There was a discussion about this slave pull arrangement some time ago on the forum, and there even was a name for it (which I've forgotten also). So I believe this method was an after-market addition/improvement, rather than a standard factory installation. And my S-10 was not the only one that had it.


Glenn,

the guitar had the Emmons setup. I do not see how the two-hole bellcrank could make a changeover to the Day setup any easier.

I played that S-10 for 12 years. Not being able to remember how this thing worked is just driving me nuts!

I would have forgotten all about it had I not received some two-hole bellcranks as a generous gift by forumite Mike Calaway today. So he is really responsible for my dilemma and this lengthy post. Let's all blame Mike, shall we?

Rainer

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<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#0000FF">Remington D-10 8+7, Sierra Crown D-10 gearless 8+8, Sierra Session S-14 gearless 8+5, '76 Emmons D-10 8+4, Peavey Session 400 LTD</FONT>