How to "think" minor-chords on C6 ??

Ole Dantoft · Post by **Ole Dantoft** » 2 Jun 2003 3:44 am

Hello all !

This MAY land me the "Dumbest question of the year"-award, but I can take it

I'm beginning to get at least SOME understanding of- and a little bit of playing skills on the C6 but this question bothers me : How do you guys "think" when you see a simple and plain minor-chord in the chart ?

Let me explain : On E9 I immidiately "think" either "Open position, 3 frets up and the A-pedal" OR "pedals-down position, 1 fret up and lower my E's" depending on where I am and where I'm going, but on the C6 there are SOO many positions and pedal combinations that give you some variation of a minor-chord !

How do you guys go about this ?

(I know I can slide up 3 frets and find the minor there without pedals, but it can't be that simple, can it ?)

Ole

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www.oledantoft.dk

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CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 2 Jun 2003 4:35 am

open position is an A- too w: or without p8
fret 5 ped7: A-
or fret 5 kn that lowers st3 1/2 tone : A-
fret 9 p6 and p4 (if Bb): A-

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Steel what?

[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 02 June 2003 at 05:36 AM.][This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 02 June 2003 at 09:58 AM.][This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 02 June 2003 at 02:18 PM.]

Sonny Jenkins · Post by **Sonny Jenkins** » 2 Jun 2003 6:28 am

??? What did CrowBear say ??? (guess I don't understood those french abbreviations).

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 2 Jun 2003 7:22 am

Chord rel.fret strings P's or L's

MINOR_______+3_____8,7,6,4,3,2
MINOR________0_____7,6,5,3__________6
MINOR 6______0_____7,6,5,4,3________6
MINOR 6_____+3_____7,6,5,4__________5
MINOR 6/9___+3_____8,7,6,5,3________5_____F
MINOR 7_____+3_____8,7,6,5,4,3,2
MINOR 7______0_____5,3,2__________________F
MINOR 7_____+3_____8,5,3
MINOR 7______0_____10,8,6,5_________6____G
MINOR 7_____+3_____8,7,6,5,4________7[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 02 June 2003 at 08:26 AM.]

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 2 Jun 2003 9:02 am

hey Sonny no French abbreviations here man
p = pedal
st = string
kn = knee lever
- = minor
O position is a C6 but is an A- too right ?
w: or without the boowah
5 above p7 is an A-
5 above kn that lowers st3 is an A-
3 below p6 and p4 (if Bb) or a kn that does that change makes an A-
i don't have no weird cocopedent but i only got 2 knee levers on C6
maybe you just jivin'Sonny huh ?

[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 02 June 2003 at 02:18 PM.]

Harry Williams · Post by **Harry Williams** » 2 Jun 2003 3:50 pm

Crowbear-
C'est quoi "Boowah"?? Translate SVP...
Merci, Thanks

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CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 2 Jun 2003 11:31 pm

le Boowah, si j'ai bien compris, c'est le son que fait la 10e corde quand la pédale 8 est appuyée.
la note descend de Do/C au La/A et qui donne ce genre de son: (boowah)
c'est ici sur le Forum que j'ai appris cela

Ole Dantoft · Post by **Ole Dantoft** » 3 Jun 2003 2:31 am

Thanks to all who responded with READABLE answers

I've got a couple of very good answers by e-mail, which are very much appreciated !

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Ole

My homepage !

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 3 Jun 2003 7:52 am

This might help:
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum8/HTML/000716.html

Bob

Mike Delaney · Post by **Mike Delaney** » 3 Jun 2003 8:28 pm

CrowBear-How 'bout that answer in English, C vous play? Don't know what boowah is either, since I don't have a C6 neck. Mucho garcia.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 3 Jun 2003 11:41 pm

Forgive me guys but i thought my Canadian friend wanted that in French
If i understood correctly, the boowah is the name given to pedal 8, because of the lowering of the string 10 from C to A and the kind of sound it renders.
seems to go C:Boo to A:Wah.
For those of you who don't play C6, yer missin' out on some hip stuff.
i'm sure there are some other players here that can Xplain this much better than i.
hey Garcia, mucho welcome

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 4 Jun 2003 2:50 am

Yep, C6 is just my favorite place to play.
I have to force myself onto the E9 neck...

Can't decide if Boowah is
low to high or high to low
for the sound getting the name. mebe both!

steve takacs · Post by **steve takacs** » 4 Jun 2003 5:25 am

Hi, David; can you tell us what the F & G levers do, please? Thanks,
Steve

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 4 Jun 2003 8:09 am

There are so many variations on levers..
what are your notes? I have TAB with totally diiferent notes on the "G" lever...

And I may pass you off to someone with more exprience... I may have an idea what I use them for, but there are I am sure several others.
Ok I'll give it a shot anyway.

RKR does 3st C and 7st C to C#s on C6 could be b9. or the C# as root

I also useC#s with the 4st A to G# on my LKL
and it gives a nice passing chord similar but different than p5+p6

Try C I-chord fret 12,
add those levers
then no levers fret5 IV-chord
add levers
then7 V-chord
and add levers
and back to I no levers. Works for me.

Also with the A root I chord fret 12 and the C# lever
It's an A7
2 frets below is the IV

On fret 4 you also get some C chords
on top a 1/3/5 on s4, s3 and s2 with a 4/11th on s1

below strings 8 to 6 a C6 c135 and a b7 in the middle of the two chords

An interesting change.

Ok, I had to deal with some stuff, but came back and worked C#s into the ground on some blues.
It real can bring I IV and V close together from both directions and is a great blues lick home bass. Add p6 on home fret and up 2 for variation

So open Bb I ft10
and add C#s do IV on ft6 and V on ft8

or I with C#s at fret 1 or 13
up to 15ft or 3 open IV and 17or 5 open V

Alternate with with P6 IV on 10ft and V on 12ft

Or I on ft13 w/C#
They seem to slide real nice between each other too.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 04 June 2003 at 10:34 AM.]

Mike Delaney · Post by **Mike Delaney** » 4 Jun 2003 3:29 pm

Good on ya CrowBear, I always wondered what that was. The I-IV sound, I hear it in my head already. Like Glenn Miller's brass section using plunger mutes.

I have my eye on a double neck now, and am really interested in the C6 neck. On the E9 neck, I "think" guitar. On the C6 neck, I believe I would "think" music theory, as it lines up more like a piano. What the hell, its only money. As soon as I recover from the fractured skull when my wife finds out, I'll have years to enjoy it.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 4 Jun 2003 5:56 pm

Unlike E9th which has no inbedded relative minor chords (no pedals or knee levers engaged), C6th basic tuning include the relative minor at any fret (no pedals or knee levers engaged).

So this basic tuning has a built in minor that makes it one of the most popular lap tunings ever created. Since a relativ minor chord can be played most of the time on top of its relative major chord, it is a natural tuning in essence.

(NOTE: While E13th AND A6th both have imbedded relative minors, C6 is by far the more popular because of how it lays in music phrasing IMO.)

In the case of E9th you can get this relative minor, but you have to engage the A pedal and unlike E13th tuning you don't have both at one time. You CAN get them both IF you either engage A and B pedals OR lower the E's which in affect turns it into what the C6 tuning is (only one fret lower). IE, C6 at the 1st fret.

Since any major key has 3 relative minor chords that are used often in music, it doesnt take much info to make good use of the C6 tuning to find them.

In other words at the open tuning:

G
E
C
A
G
E
C
A
F
C

the A C and E notes ARE the relative minor for the C E and G notes. Knowing this then embelishes one's playing in many many musical compositions.

Now the pedals and knee levers embelish it even furher:

1. A given frets minor chord can be had by engaging Pedal 6 and picking a C note, a G note and the lowered 6th string (Eb note with the pedal).

2. A V chord's relative minor can be had at any root fret using pedal 7 (picking strings 4 and picking any E and G notes.

3. This same chord can be achieved by engaging the knee lever that lowers the 3rd string to a B using an E and a G string.

4. Knowing this and just a little bit of study will show you that the IV chord's relative minor is then 2 frets down with pedal 7 engaged (or the knee lever) picking the above respect strings.

5. Using this and the relative minor (listed above) at any given fret (no pedals or knees), you can expand on it and can start to visualize WHERE any minor is and what pedals and or knee levers to engage (along with what strings to pick) in order to achieve this minor.

Examples:

II minor: Move two fret up, and engage pedal 6; and pick strings 5, 6 and 7.

VI minor: this just happens to be the root major chords' relative minor. So pick srtings 2, 3 and 4 at any root fret.

And so on. With a little practice and some thought, minors will open up to you all over the place and it will become second nature to you in a short time.

Try it and may Jesus bless you in your quests,

carl

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 5 Jun 2003 12:14 am

DLD

And I may pass you off to someone with more exprience...

and he arrives as predicted. And on the money as usual. Great Carl! Merci for your presence and knowledge.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 5 Jun 2003 2:06 am

yep !

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 24 Oct 2003 10:45 am

How to think minor chords?

The way I do it is something like:

Minor3rd + maj3rd interval = minor chord
Also = strings 4 3 2 or 8 7 6 on C6.

Since it might be another chord before or after the minor chord I would also apply:

It could be a major w the 3rd lowered a half step = strings 7 6 5 w P6

or it could be a major w the 5th raised a whole step = strings 7 6 4

or it could be a major w root lowered a half step = strings 8 6 5 w P4
or 6 5 4 w P4
or 6 5 3 w 3rd string lowered to B

Very much in the same way Carl D. explained the relative minor/major connection.

BTW the E9 does have a relative minor embedded in the open tuning but it is the relative of the Vchord found on strings 5 2 1. use string 6 or 3 instead of 1 and there is the relative minor(IIIm) of the Vchord. where the 3string would = string 1 (5th) raised a whole tone to (6th)

Things actually get easier

if the voicing is expanded to a minor7 because of the way the individual notes move when the minor7th voicing changes thru different inversions.

Bengt Erlandsen

[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 24 October 2003 at 12:09 PM.]

Gary Walker · Post by **Gary Walker** » 24 Oct 2003 12:14 pm

My C6 has 11 strings with an low A on the bottom below C and I just move up 3 frets and that gives me a minor as stated above with the 8th string as root and octave to my 11th string as root.

Doug Seymour · Post by **Doug Seymour** » 24 Oct 2003 1:41 pm

I met twin brothers in Ashtabula OH (Their Dad had an auto agency in Painsville OH) in 1949. They had an amazing collection of Oahu publishing tablature (Oahu was in Cleveland)
and it was all for the Aminor 7th tuning! The Hawaiians called C6th an Ami7th tuning, I guess? The 2 chords contain the same 4 notes! Depends on the root note you're thinking of, right?[This message was edited by Doug Seymour on 24 October 2003 at 02:44 PM.]

Rex Thomas · Post by **Rex Thomas** » 24 Oct 2003 2:26 pm

Carl wins. But I have to mention that Doug Jernigan wins too, because his beginner C6 course points out those minor triads for you & trains you so that you grab those minor groupings as fast as you would straight up E9 triads.
Good contributions, Carl. Thanx.

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 24 Oct 2003 3:46 pm

Surely is no competition here. We share what we know to wxpand on the ins/outs of this wonderful instrument.
I totally agree w C.D. wins. He is very much the reason why my S12 is setup the way it is and I could not have set all the pulls at the right places without that help. Thanks Carl.

Bengt Erlandsen.

Rex Thomas · Post by **Rex Thomas** » 24 Oct 2003 8:21 pm

Sorry, Bengt. Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers.
For the longest time I tinkered around with C6 totally unaware that there a 4 minor inversions there at my disposal, no pedals. What a bubbahead, me.

Ole Dantoft · Post by **Ole Dantoft** » 25 Oct 2003 5:10 am

I just noticed that this old thread surfaced again and I'd like to thank you all once again for your contributions and a special "Thank You" goes to Carl Dixon for sharing your knowledge once again here on this great Forum !

I really appreciate this !

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Ole

My homepage !