Patent Number on Emmons PP Changer ?

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 17 Oct 2003 6:12 am

Earlier Changers do not have any Patent number stamped on them.

Anyone know what year this Patient Number stamp started?

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 17 Oct 2003 9:46 am

Joey A-My belief is that the earliest "cut-tail" changers without the patent numbers are usually from around 1967(post '66 bolt-on)Those cut tails with patent numbers are likely from 1968 or later-I had a '67 without the patent numbers

J Fletcher · Post by **J Fletcher** » 17 Oct 2003 10:22 am

I have a 72 or so, S10 wood neck, bolt on changer(I believe), without a patent number. At least I didn't see one. My 84 has a patent number, but it has a different style push pull changer....Jerry

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 17 Oct 2003 11:08 am

Woodneck bolt-ons would not have a patent number. The patent number was stamped on the cut-tail changer backplate.

------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 18 Oct 2003 6:07 am

I have no patent numbers stamped on any of
my 60's models, including the '69.

Ed Naylor · Post by **Ed Naylor** » 18 Oct 2003 8:54 am

Somewhere I have a copy of the patent that Emmons got on their changer. I don't recall the year. A lot of people did not "Stamp" the patent # on their instruments. Sho-Bud didn't on their guitars.I went thru all this 40+ years ago when I started building my guitars. A "Design" patent is only good for 7 years. I understand you can change an existing patent by 10% and you have a "NEW" item that is patentable.Ed Naylor Steel Guitar Works

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 18 Oct 2003 4:51 pm

Patent numbers mean nothing. Its like belly
buttons,some are "innies" some are "outies".

Makes no difference,you know you have a belly
button and you know you have an original Emmons, so stop crying

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 19 Oct 2003 6:12 am

I respectfully disagree "O-Great Fender Guru".

Sometime around 1970 the patent was granted and Emmons started stamping it on the end of their changer in full view.

Since serial numbers are not a reliable way of establishing the year of an S-10 PP, I suspect the presense (or absense)of this patent number is a clue to the date of manufactor.

Thanks to all the above posters.
More comments are most welcome.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 19 Oct 2003 10:42 am

Oh how sweet it is,,,,you are right Meatball
Breath.

Reminds me to tell you............

Up till 1965 or so,all Fender solid body guitars had the serial number stamped on the
plate that screwed into the body and the base
of the neck.

Many problems because of this. Non Fender dealers would bootleg Fender guitars and have
a new blank plate made up so that the origin
or serial number was missing.

This drove the Fender authorized dealers up a wall and Fender asked all the reps to try to locate the source of the blank plate manufacturer.

I would send people into a non Fender dealers
store and look at the back side of the guitar
If there was a serial number I had the shopper buy the guitar to try to locate the source of supply.

I was then known as Broadway Joe Agent 007 1/2..I bought many guitars from non Fender dealers and finally (not always) located the source with proof of sale to the original dealer by Invoice.

By my insisting that this be remedied I suggested to the suits at CBS to manufacture
the blank plate with a "F" Fender logo and anyone who removed the plate with the "F" would be infringing on Fenders patents.

I asked that serial numbers be stamped on the
back of the headstock which would make it more difficult for the "bootleggers" to remove. It was quite a while before Fender & CBS accepted my idea and after that,it made
those who bootlegged Fender guitars very difficult.

Knowing all to well how this can interfere with distribution I was able to convince them
at CBS to stamp the serial number on the back chassis of the amplifiers.

Most speaker enclosures and any amp with a set of tilt back legs had the serial number stamped on the leg on the amp that it was installed.

This was not sucessful as they (bootleggers) could easily remove the tilt back leg and sell it as such.

I convinced them once again to stamp the serial number on the back of the amp chassis
and that would be impossible to remove.

Would you buy anything with the serial number
removed? The guitars being most prone to this problem was solved by adding the famous
"FENDER" "F" logo on the plate that screws into the neck..if any guitar was found to have that plate removed and a blank put on was infringing the Fender patent and was considered altering the original which carried legal consequences.

I was able to locate the source of the "blank
plate maker and took him to task and CBS pressed charges and sued him as he was making
a ton of money supplying non Fender dealers all over the world.

If you buy anything,,be sure the serial number is in tact.

And yes...I did wear a "Trench Coat and sunglasses when I was a salesman by day and a detective by night.

There are many true and humorous stories of how I attended unbeknown to those at a meeting of the minds whereas, I found those guilty and broke up the ring of counterfit
sources.

So you see,,,I wasnt just a salesman I was a detective,lawyer,preacher, and shrink to many Fender dealers as well as non Fender dealers.

Just the facts, read my upcoming book it may
suprise you

Joe Thursday.

It used to be Joe Friday,but it ruined my weekends.

Thank you Joey "Meatball Breath" for your input

make certain your meatballs have a serial number.

I'm outta here.

edited to add........
read how I followed a truck loaded with Fender equipment to its destination and then jumped out of my bat mobile and confronted
the guilty.

Buy the dammed book and read about my life behind the scenes at Fender. The ink is still wet,but it wont be long now. Thats a line Rabbi's use

Thanks.

Joe Mannix.[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 19 October 2003 at 11:51 AM.]

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 19 Oct 2003 10:53 am

Edited for double post..

Read how my cover was found and that three big guys with "no necks" who were on the truck threatened to break my legs.

You know....the guys with no neck and flat noses bada bing bada boom.

I was scared to death and said please..break my nose but dont break my "middle leg".

FUHGEDDABOUDIT.[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 19 October 2003 at 12:01 PM.]

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 19 Oct 2003 10:07 pm

For what it's worth, 1280D (1969) had no patent number on its tail block. Which one of you guys ended up wih that guitar?