ZB problem

Scott Hiestand · Post by **Scott Hiestand** » 24 Sep 2003 11:12 am

I have a new one for you ZB enthusiasts to take a crack at. Hopefully not a biggie...

My RNR (6 string lower 1/2.....used to be a whole lower but I changed it) won't return to pitch. It's definitley the finger mechanism that won't snap back - nothing is "binding" with the rods or turnbuckles, etc. It seems "sticky". To get it to return I need to depress the B pedal (which of course raises 6) or just sort of tap the finger from under the guitar, neither of which is very practical while playing it!

My first thought was the spring needs to be shortened, but I really think the "stickyness" might be more of the problem, although it's tough to tell "where it is". Maybe a drop or two of oil somewhere, but I would hate to foul things up if that's the wrong approach.

Any suggestions?

Thx!!

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 24 Sep 2003 1:23 pm

It's my understanding that the roller nuts on ZBs are notorious for getting caught up and not returning to pitch. They need to be cleaned and polished.

Good luck, DZ

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 24 Sep 2003 2:29 pm

Scott, is that the only pull on that knee?

Scott Hiestand · Post by **Scott Hiestand** » 24 Sep 2003 6:23 pm

Kevin-

I also have string 1 being raised a 1/2 tone with my RNR....

B. Greg Jones · Post by **B. Greg Jones** » 24 Sep 2003 9:16 pm

Scott, is the string returning sharp or flat?? Could be a couple of things but pretty much an easy fix. If the lower was working fine as a whole tone lower on 6, then now the pull rods will have to be re-equalized with strings 1 & 6. You wont both of the changes bottoming out at the same time on the endplate. You are going to have to shorten the pull rod a bit on string 6 lower. This will also make the knee lever feel smoother too.

If the string is returning sharp, go to the nut roller and check it out.

Let me know if any of this has helped!!!!

Greg

Scott Hiestand · Post by **Scott Hiestand** » 25 Sep 2003 2:33 am

Hey Greg -

When I changed 6 to lower 1/2 instead of a whole, I did "synchronize" it with string 1 so the changes bottomed out at the same time. This worked fine for a couple of weeks, anyway. And I may have partially mispoke - it's not the actual "finger" that is sticking, but the flat piece of metal that the spring and pull rod attaches to (or whatever is behind it which I can't see).

When I engage the lever, the string lowers the appropriate 1/2 tone but the endplate adjusting screw just stays "bottomed out" aginst the endplate and doesn't return, so the string doesn't return from that lowered pitch. I tried loosening the string and rolling the nut roller to a different position, to no avail. It's something at the changer end I am sure......

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 25 Sep 2003 7:02 am

Scott I just ran into a similar issue. I found that the screw part of the flat metal strip you mentioned is what goes into the endplate holes. Then the stop screws (which are actually nuts) go into the hole around the screw part. If that screw part isnt centered in the hole, then the stop screw will bind up in the endplate hole. I had to do a tiny big of bending to get the screw to center in the endplate hole. It was on my low B raise and it wasn't returning all the way and it was also rubbing and binding. Now it just glides. The screws passing thru the endplate holes seem to be one of the few places that binding can take place. Just a thought.

Brad Sarno

Scott Hiestand · Post by **Scott Hiestand** » 25 Sep 2003 1:29 pm

Brad -

Thanks for the idea. At first, I did tighten up the spring and I thought that did fix it, but after a dozen or so knee lever moves the problem started again.

What I wound up doing is, backed off the endplate hex nut completely on the 6th string, then re-adjusted the half stop screw (this is a "non-ZB-standard" screw that I believe Billy Knowles added when he rebuilt the guitar, it goes through the "devil horn" at the changer end on 6 and stops the finger from traveling at a given point) to stop the finger at the correct pitch, then, with the lever engaged, re-tightened the endplate screw all the way to the endplate.

This seemed to, at least for now, fix the problem although I can't really explain why!! The action/knee lever travel feels fine and both my changes on RNR "bottom out" at the same time, or at least pretty darn close. As long as it stays fixed, I am happy.

I am beginning to think that working on these ZB's is almost more of an art than science, but even with the few headaches I have had the looks and tone of this guitar make it all worth it.

BTW Brad, I checked out your axe on the other ZB thread. It's the exact same color scheme as my D-10 (expect I've got black fretboards), so I gotta say, NICE!!

Chick Donner · Post by **Chick Donner** » 26 Sep 2003 7:47 am

Take a real good look with a real bright lite down into the changer. . . I hauled my old ZB out a few years ago, and changed the first string raise from 1/2 (where it had been for 25 years) to a whole tone. Damn thing would NOT return true. Inspection revealed that the guitar (68 model) had some 29 broken string ball ends trapped up in there. Cleaned them out, and it made a new guitar out of it.
Hope this helps.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 26 Sep 2003 8:12 am

Chick, I agree. ZB's EAT ball ends.

Scott Hiestand · Post by **Scott Hiestand** » 26 Sep 2003 10:42 am

29 ball ends?? Holy half-stop, Batman! Now you guys have me scared. The first thing I will do when I get home is get out the flashlight.......

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 26 Sep 2003 11:18 am

I stuck pieces of foam down twixt the changer sand the body to keep ball ends from dropping into the changer...

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 26 Sep 2003 1:12 pm

Dave, good idea. I'm gonna do that also.