Aeolean Question

Dave Little · Post by **Dave Little** » 25 Jul 2003 12:50 pm

I've been studying up on modes and such lately. The thread in "No Peddlers" is pretty heavy - http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/003549.html (July 7,2003). Over what types of chords and/or progressions do you jazzmen use the aeolean mode?[This message was edited by Dave Little on 25 July 2003 at 01:53 PM.][This message was edited by Dave Little on 25 July 2003 at 01:53 PM.]

Leon Grizzard · Post by **Leon Grizzard** » 26 Jul 2003 12:38 pm

Dave - I've been waiting for some jazzbo to speak up here, but in the meantime, let me ask you to clarify your question - are you asking about aeolian as a substitute scale or something particularly jazzlike, as opposed to its obvious use over vi in the major scale, or i in the minor?

Dave Little · Post by **Dave Little** » 26 Jul 2003 3:18 pm

Yeah - I was hoping for some comments relating to the use of aeolean in a jazz or jazz like setting. Like you say- as a substitute, as part of a poly-chord, as a scale choice over certain chords or progressions, etc. In the thread I cited above, the use of aeolean was debated a little, but I was left somewhat confused and more curious.[This message was edited by Dave Little on 26 July 2003 at 04:24 PM.]

Jeff A. Smith · Post by **Jeff A. Smith** » 26 Jul 2003 7:47 pm

Traditionally in jazz, the aeolian mode as a highlighted entity has been kind of de-emphasized. It has a very classical sound. In a minor-type tonality it is much more common to hear the dorian mode. The dorian differs from the aeolian only in having a natural 6th note instead of a b6; but this one note makes a big difference. The dorian is heard everywhere, in many kinds of music. Some places require one 6th or the other, so someone either plays it or leaves it out of the scale.

Rather than spending a lot of time crafting lines out of the aeolian mode,(known alternatively as the Natural Minor Scale), a jazz player would frequently just play the relevant major scale as a substitute in their place, play dorian while being careful about the 6th, or use pentatonic ideas. Naturally, I'm just speaking about traditional jazz use. Anybody's free to use whatever the heck sounds good to them.

My own thoughts on aeolian usage? Play a major scale (or licks you already know out of the major scale) 3 half-steps (frets) up from the intended root for a minor chord and see how it sounds. If you really like the classical flavor of the scale,(caused particularly by the b6), you might go ahead and work on it as an isolated entity. If it isn't that compelling, don't worry too much about it. You'll always be able to sub a major scale over it -- or do something else -- if you come across a place that requires the aeolian's notes specifically.

On the aeolian as substitute idea: Folks sometimes find that certain modes really appeal to them, and they can work on ways to substitute them in place of other modes, just by basing the scale a certain interval up or down from the chord's root. This can also be a time-saver, if someone doesn't intend to spend time learning a whole lot of scales, especially the ones that all contain the same notes anyway.

Denny over in No Peddlers seems to think a lot of using aeolian with this substitution approach. In my experience it is more common for musicians in general to use other modes this way, but if it works for Denny (or anyone else) more power to 'em. As to how the aeolian may or may not lend itself to this use in a C6 tuning, in comparison to other modes, I don't know. [This message was edited by Jeff A. Smith on 26 July 2003 at 09:32 PM.][This message was edited by Jeff A. Smith on 27 July 2003 at 06:41 AM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 26 Jul 2003 8:11 pm

It's easy to use the aeolean scale over a song in a minor key. The real trick is to step out of the scale on the V chord.

For example, if you're soloing in Am, using the notes A B C D E F G, the chord progression will probably go to E7 at some point. When it does, you need to change the G in the scale to G#.

And there's a related trick. We often extend the V chord with a 9th. In a minor key that 9th is flatted so that it fits in the scale. So, your E7 chord (in Am) extends to an E7b9 (E G# B D F). Cool, huh?

Another interesting thing about the V chord in a minor key is that the augmented note (5#) is a scale tone. Playing an E+ (E G# C) for the V chord in Am sounds very smooth, not nearly as outside as the major key equivalent (G+ in C).

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Jeff A. Smith · Post by **Jeff A. Smith** » 26 Jul 2003 8:45 pm

For example, if you're soloing in Am, using the notes A B C D E F G, the chord progression will probably go to E7 at some point. When it does, you need to change the G in the scale to G#.

If you thought of the Natural Minor (aeolian mode) with a nat. 7th, like b0b is describing, you'd have the "Harmonic Minor." That 7th note, played over the V7 chord, becomes the very powerful third of that chord, which then can resolve powerfully up a half-step to the root of the I minor, when the progression returns to that chord. Very powerful.

A shortcut to this, if you happen to be just using the relative major scale for the minor, is to just sharp the 5th; achieves the same result.
[This message was edited by Jeff A. Smith on 26 July 2003 at 09:56 PM.]

Mike Delaney · Post by **Mike Delaney** » 3 Aug 2003 6:36 am

Very good point b0b, right on the money.

From a theoretical standpoint, I generally only think of Aeolian as a vi chord in a major key, or the i chord in a minor key.

I think the reason that I think of it as a i chord in minor is that my ear is prepared for the iimin7b5/V7b9 progression. If that progression isn't in the song, I'm much more likely to be thinking Dorian or Jazz Minor scales rather than Aeolian or Phrygian.

Jeff A. Smith · Post by **Jeff A. Smith** » 3 Aug 2003 7:23 am

If that progression isn't in the song, I'm much more likely to be thinking Dorian or Jazz Minor scales rather than Aeolian or Phrygian.

Something else that probably should be said is that jazz guys are very adept at using chromatic passing tones. Further, it seems to me that they are likely to view all possible minor 7th ideas under one general heading to draw from, rather than be too caught up in this mode or that mode.

A couple of days ago I got out a transcript of a Herb Ellis solo over the tune "All The Things You Are," which uses the vi minor chord in two different keys, outside of the iim7b5-V7b9 context. He may have hit the b6 note once -- in passing -- over the two vi minor chords, throughout the entire long solo. However, in addition to the basic dorian notes, he also made frequent use of the b5 and natural 7th tones; things we may tend to think of as blues scale or jazz minor ideas.

My favorite player to look at for minor 7th- type ideas is Pat Martino. Speaking of the idea of superimposition, he tends to use his encyclopaedic collection of minor 7th ideas as the basis of his lead playing over all chord types. The most prominent example is in playing over a dom. 7th type chord, where he will play minor 7th ideas up a fifth.

The thing is, in studying transpositions of his solos, it's his way of chromatically enhancing the lines which gives his playing so much depth. According to Martino, he didn't even know what the dorian mode was before he learned some theory in order to help others.

Studying his lines usually leaves me feeling like I haven't progressed much beyond playing basic scales.
[This message was edited by Jeff A. Smith on 03 August 2003 at 08:30 AM.]