Learning the Melody

Jeff A. Smith · Post by **Jeff A. Smith** » 14 Jul 2003 11:59 pm

I'm curious to hear how different people integrate the notes of a song's melody into everything else. Here are a few questions which may (or may not) suggest a reply:

1. Do you think of the melody as based in a certain scale, or just as a sequence of notes to memorize?

2. If you think of a scale,(for example the scale of the song's key center), would you tend to think according to the same scale (single-note or chord scale) through the whole progression of chords, or see the melody in relation to changing background chords?

3. Do you alter your approach depending on the complexity or type of tune?

4. Does the way (or ways) you conceive of the melody allow easy access to relevant scales or melodic tools with which to embellish the basic melody as you feel?

On a jazz tune like "All the Things You Are," which has (in my thinking anyway) five different key centers, I find myself toying with different conceptual frameworks within which to place the melody line. Right now the melody exists pretty much as a memorized physical shape, with little relation to chord shapes or scales I use when soloing. The key centers change so much that it would be difficult for me to place the melody into a continually shifting context. Does anybody do this on a complex tune? (Although this is a tune I currently play only on guitar, it's a good example of what I'm wondering about.)

This is an area where I could really benefit from a range of opinions. Thanks for any help.

Jeff

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 15 Jul 2003 1:29 am

Hi Jeff, to me it's most important to get a 'helicopterview' from the melody, to see the whole story, in relation to chords, rhythm, intervals,(key)changes,and most of the times also the words.(to me in a good song, the melody and words are very related)If and when you understand what the composer tries to say,90 % of the work is done.Then it's complexity makes sence, and you will see and know how to notate it.Yes, the complexer the song, the harder this is and it will take more time.JJ

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Click on the pic!

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 15 Jul 2003 1:45 am

Wow Jeff thats a lot of stuff to think about.

The way I approach melody is not quite as techinical as the way you do it..but we both agree that melody is not an option, it's mandatory.

I hear a tune, the melody line, and visualize where it is on the Steel neck as well as the Guitar neck. If one is familiar with their Instrument, regardless of what it is, they should "HEAR" the phrasing of the melody line and reference it to their Instrument.

This does not mean that you just play it right out of the gate but if you can hear the lines and relate them to your Instrument then you're well on your way.

I don't generally get technical about this stuff unless I really need to which is hardly ever.

I see music on the Steel and on my Telecaster in pockets when I look at the necks. I always prescibe to the KISS method..

Keep it Simple Stupid...

I tell ya, there are more melody lines with 2 pedals and a single E lower knee lever than a human could desire.

good topic

tp

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 15 Jul 2003 7:09 am

I tend to do all of the above -- with the guiding force being the context of the song. I'll assume we're not talking about musically simple melodies like 'Wildwood Flower', which a good musician should be able to hear once and play. 'All the Things You Are' is a great example and a great song. An example of the steps/approach I tend to take for a song of that complexity:

1. I listen to it 10 or more times without touching the guitar, to get the 'gestalt' of the song AND to get the melody in mind.

2. I look at a chart or create one if I don't already have one. THIS IS CRITICAL. You need to know every note of the melody and each of the chord changes.

3. I listen to it 10 more times looking at the chart and noticing how the melody lays over the changes. In your example, the 'A' part lends itself to a chord-style approach with the melody note on top. The 'B' part is more of a flowing melodic section. Begin to 'carve out' how you envision your arrangement.

4. Record a simple rhythm track -- Band in a Box works fine, but so does a metronome, rhythm guitar, and boom box style recorder. Do one really slow, one medium, and one up to tempo. By the time I get to this point, I'm pretty sure how I'm gonna approach the song, even though I've scarcely touched the guitar. At this point, it's nice to be able to hum the melody accurately along with the track.

5. I take the chord chart and play chords (without regard for the melody) in any position that comes to mind on the guitar, along with the slow rhythm track. If I'm planning a 'chord solo' style, I may begin thinking about positions that will allow the melody note to be on top. 'All the Things' is a song I would treat that way, especially the 'A' part. I usually look for a flow of positions that require the minimum bar movement, but that can be too restrictive in some cases.

6. Once I'm able to play chords solidly with the slow track, I think about melody notes and where they fall within those positions. I note the Fret/Pedal/Lever combination that seems to work best for each chord change on the chart.

At this point, I have a framework for playing the song on pedal steel. I know where the chords lie and, in most cases, the melody is not far away from the chord tones. I tend to play the melody notes that are within the chord harmonized with other notes (particularly 'color tones'). I usually construct solos around these chord positions, as well. If a melody note is an 'outlier' from the chord, I'll play it as a single note.

7. I refine the melody, determining the best way to play it at tempo and whether it will be single notes or harmonized in some way. At this point, I'm usually able to play the melody pretty reliably as single notes.

8. Work it up to the desired tempo, to be able to play 'the head' in a musically interesting manner, being true to the melody and composition.

9. NOW THE FUN PART: Armed with a thorough knowledge of the song (being able to play chords or melody at tempo), step away from your guitar and listen to the rhythm track -- perhaps the one at MEDIUM tempo. Start humming the melody and begin 'straying'. Create alternate melodies. When you get a good one, RECORD IT, go to your guitar, and learn it. Use it for a solo. You can construct other solos off the chord positions as well, but I usually find they're not nearly as melodic as one you find by humming along with the progression.

10. As all good Suzuki violin or piano students know, LISTEN, LISTEN, LISTEN. A musician's most valuable asset is the EARS.

Sorry for the long exposition, but YOU ASKED.

It's a long process and I certainly don't use it on all tunes, but I think it's a method that helps you get a tune with melodic and harmonic complexity into your head and onto your guitar.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 15 July 2003 at 08:22 AM.]

Mike Delaney · Post by **Mike Delaney** » 15 Jul 2003 7:20 am

Jeff- In answer to your post;

1) Yes, I always think key (or key center).

2) In relation to the chord changes.

3) Absolutely.

4) Yes.

Obviously, the trick to this is to play something that sounds in context with the tune. What may sound great in "Epistrophy" might sound like hell in "Crazy Arms".

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 15 Jul 2003 7:41 am

To me, the feel of the song is more important than 100% accuracy on all the notes. Songs are just stories and conveyed with tones and words. I memorize the melody and the associated chord changes. I really don't think of scales, per se. I don't try to "visualize" the neck, either, since there's so many places the notes can be found. I can't explain it, but you eventually reach a point in your playing where you just know where to go to get a certain note.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 15 Jul 2003 8:17 am

When I analyze the way I analyze, it seems as though I think in terms of adding lower voices to a top melody line. On a standard guitar, I learn the melody in a variety of locations and fingerings, and try to come up with at least a couple of non-barre chord ways of getting through the changes. Then I try to play the melody with one or two harmony notes underneath, taken from the chords. So far, on pedal steel I sort of flounder around this concept and hope nobody shoots me for sucking so bad. I have Band-in-a-Box but the cheesy tones annoy me, so I usually record rhythm stuff into a little $99 Fostex four track cassette machine.

Tony LaCroix · Post by **Tony LaCroix** » 15 Jul 2003 8:41 am

Jeff, great topic.

If I had to identify the characteristics that make my favorite instrumental solos so great, they'd all fall into one of two categories:

1) They follow the song's melody very closely, at least for a while

2) They carve out their own, new melody, which compliments the original.

In my opinion, to play melodically is to play well. I'm not sure what purpose freelance notegrabbing has in a song. I like to hear something I can sing along with and remember.

In fact, I think every member of any band has a resposibility first to the song. Any playing that is not focussed on making the song better can potentially hinder the team effort. Seems like a no-brainer, but how many players have we all heard that get the nod for a solo, and seem to suddenly forget that they're trying to play a song, deciding instead that it's time to try out the newest calisthenic fretboard excercise?

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 15 Jul 2003 9:33 am

Right now the melody exists pretty much as a memorized physical shape, with little relation to chord shapes or scales I use when soloing

While it's certainly acceptable to memorize the melody as the physical shape of a run of single notes, I believe it is at least, if not more valuable, to know the melody in the context of the chord shapes and/or key centers. Another way of sayng this is that the D note I play on a G7 chord in the key of C will most certainly be different than the D note I play on a Bb7 chord in the key of Eb.

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Jeff's Jazz

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 15 Jul 2003 10:15 am

I like to simply play along with it untill I've got a handle on it (I have both Cassette and Mini-Disk units with pitch controll).
Chord charts and tabbing of parts... use as needed but lose 'em as soon as possible.
Fearing the "Musak" factor, I opt for an "Embelishment" of the Melody that says to the audience... "Yes, this is what song we are playing (as opposed to a jumble of licks or direct note for note melody), but Wow!!!.... listen to that Pedal Steel Guitar!!!".
Season to taste from gig to gig.

P.S.
Many "Play The Melody" examples can be heard on SteelRadio.com. http://timarastringbenders.com/SGIRadio.html [This message was edited by Pete Burak on 15 July 2003 at 11:21 AM.]

Jeff A. Smith · Post by **Jeff A. Smith** » 15 Jul 2003 2:32 pm

Rather than single any replies out at this point for comment, let me instead say that I appreciate each and every one; both in terms of substance, and what they say about the different basic approaches we all have.

Although I referred to "All the Things You Are" as an example -- a tune most of us would consider reasonably challenging -- in order to address what I'm personally dealing with at present, I'm also interested in hearing how people approach simpler things.

It seems to me that one criteria for judging whether or not someone has a grasp of comfortably playing the melody might be if they can easily invent similar things in the position they find themselves in when memory fails.

Once in an e-mail convesation with Reece Anderson about a very similar subject, I believe he said something like: "I'm not sure that I play anything from memory."

That got me thinking. [This message was edited by Jeff A. Smith on 15 July 2003 at 03:34 PM.]

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 15 Jul 2003 4:22 pm

Hi Jeff..
Top of the list of requirements, if it's a song, learn the words.

If you play an instrumental version of a song WITHOUT knowing the words, it's almost certain that you're playing it wrong.
(Unless of course you copied your version from someone who did play the words).
IMHO
Most tunes are really songs,even tunes like Take Five have words.

I won't even go into the effect you could have on the listener who's subconsciously singing the song along with you.
www.waikiki-islanders.com

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Steel players do it without fretting

http://www.waikiki-islanders.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 15 Jul 2003 7:45 pm

Here's a tab I did some time back for the first line of "All The Things You Are" in C6. What exactly are you looking to do?

<pre>1___Fm7___B7#11____Bbm7___E7#11___Eb7__________A7#11_______AbM7___________________
2_________________________________________________________________________________
3____8____6(7______13_____11(7____________________________________8_______________
4_________6(7_____________11(7_____10____10_____9R____9R____8(7_________8(7_______
5____8_____________13______________10___________9(5_________8_____________________
6_________6(6_____________11(6_____10(6_________9___________8_____________________
7__________________________________10___________9___________8_____________________
8____8_____________13_____________________________________________________________
9_________6_______________11______________________________________________________
10__you____________are____the______prom__ised___kiss__of____spring time__that_____</pre>

<pre>1___DbM7______________G7_____________CM7__________________________________________
2_________________________________________________________________________________
3__________________________7______________________________________________________
4____8___8___8___8____7R_______7R____7____________________________________________
5_________________________________________________________________________________
6____8________________7______________7____________________________________________
7_________________________________________________________________________________
8_________________________________________________________________________________
9____8_______________________________7____________________________________________
10__makes_the_lonely_winter____seem__long_________________________________________</pre>

Jeff A. Smith · Post by **Jeff A. Smith** » 15 Jul 2003 8:33 pm

You know Jeff, when your first reply was fairly short, I thought maybe I should get more concrete. It occurred to me that you may not be sure what I was after.

I don't even have a C6 neck yet. Although I welcome anything relevant to that tuning for my study and the benefit of others, the most personally relevant stuff would be on E9th. And there, I'm not really ready to jump into something like "All the Things You Are." It's a tune I've been working up on guitar.

My bringing up that example was probably because I'm looking for a conceptual answer as much as anything. By getting different views of a fairly complex tune, I thought simpler things would kind of be covered by implication. I'm thinking general ideas about how to approach this, as well as any concrete things people want to share, would be useful. Knowing your expertise on C6, please feel free to use it as the vehicle to discuss how you approach learning the melody, and integrating it into different tunes.

Hopefully I'll glean enough from that.[This message was edited by Jeff A. Smith on 15 July 2003 at 09:40 PM.]

Jeff A. Smith · Post by **Jeff A. Smith** » 15 Jul 2003 9:26 pm

Nice use of the 7#11 chord. I just cheated and played your chord progression on guitar.[This message was edited by Jeff A. Smith on 15 July 2003 at 10:27 PM.]

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 16 Jul 2003 3:39 pm

Great Thread.

I am soaking it up fast as I can.
Larry, your method/process makes lots of sense to me. Thanks

Ron

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Stringmaster T8, Benoit 8, National Tricone, MSA U12

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 16 Jul 2003 6:58 pm

Yeah Larry, great instruction.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 17 Jul 2003 6:29 am

I can do NONE of the above. You fellows amaze me. I envy you like you cannot imagine. Would to God I could listen to a song an "KNOW where each note was on the neck of my guitar".

You have NO idea how you are blessed in this regard.

May our precious Savior continue to bless you with this awesome talent.

carl

Jeff A. Smith · Post by **Jeff A. Smith** » 18 Jul 2003 3:29 pm

Your humility is inspiring, Carl.

You may have something very special to add to the question at hand, if it's true that you don't have great confidence in your ability to quickly reproduce melodies you hear from outside sources. My experience (including firsthand) has been that the inabilty to reproduce melodies quickly is one of the things that tempt a musician to ignore the melody and just play their favorite licks.

However, I know from past commentary on the subject that you place great value on learning a melody and playing around it.

I'd like to hear what you have to say about:

1. How you learn a melody

2. If you see the melody's notes as belonging to different chords while you're playing

3. If (and how) you play around with the melody a little bit when you "solo."

Thanks in advance Carl, if you find these questions interesting enough to warrant a response.

Jeff

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 18 Jul 2003 5:37 pm

Jeff,

I am tempted to not respond, for obvious reasons; and yet I feel I should since you asked.

I will try to answer as best I can.

I simply do not "hear" melody or music that allows me to KNOW where that note (or chord) is on the neck of my guitar. Now what makes this interesting is (I think); I studied music under a strict Juliard school graduate. IE, I was taught how to sight read instantly and all that goes with it. Theory, theory, theory for years with her.

At one time I could sight read concert music in a large orchestra she conducted. But I was ONLY allowed to play what was on that sheet in front of me. If I added or subtracted one single note, she was a lion waitin' to eat me up! And did a couple times.

This also applied to any other music she gave me to play. So in a word, I could play it IF, it was written down in note format. And she tolerated ONLY the melody. ANY form of ad-libbing to her was a crime! And an attack on the composer.

Now, having said that, I cannot sit down and play the melody to ANY thing I hear. I have NO idea what most of the chords are or when they even change. YET I know the three major and three relative minor chords (plus the so-called diminished) in ANY key. I can spell instantly any chord you give me in my sleep. I know those chords that do exist and those that exist only in "politicaly correct" musicianship such as a 3 note dim or a "6th" chord.

My problem is I have NO idea whether the song is calling for a major or minor or 7th ,etc or what minor or in many cases even if it is a min or maj at a given moment.

BUT if I sit down and laboriously work on it. OR better If I have sheet music where ALL the correct chords are clearly labelled, then I can pick out the melody exactly as written. And after much hard work, I CAN play the song quite well.

I simply do not hear what you precious folks hear. What is interesting, I can tell if my 6th string (for example) is 1 cent off from JI. I can hear it on others too. And I can tell "that chord" in "In the Garden" is wrong when a person plays it NOT according to the sheet music in my hymnal. I hear this. I can tell in a hearbeat whether a player is simply jamming or playing jazz. But NO way could I ever do either.

I can hear the next note in my head when most players so beautifully back a singer. But I could not even play the notes let alone give it the feeling they do.

So somewhere when My Savior was passing out musical talents, something went array in my brain. Incidently, it is NOT due to my passion for "underneath the guitar" as has been repeatedly suggested on this forum. That is untrue. It was that way long before I knew a pull rod from an eskimo igloo.

I simply cannot play the simplest melody UNTIL I have sat down and worked every single note out. Which may take me a very long time. Once I do, you can be assured the notes are correct and every chord is right.

But the time it takes is just not worth it.

So for me, I will continue to admire and love all you folks for what you seem to do sooooo effortlessly; and pray that in heaven what ever went wrong will be the first thing that gets corrected. Because NO one on this earth has ever wanted to do it any more than I have. But it was just not to be.

Lest there be ANY doubt I am NOT complaining. I got more than my share of talents, they just were not in music. I thank Jesus with all my heart for all the blessing he did give me.

Thanks Jeff for asking; and may Jesus richly bless you always,

carl

Jeff A. Smith · Post by **Jeff A. Smith** » 18 Jul 2003 6:49 pm

Thanks Carl, for taking the time to respond. Hearing the heartfelt and sincere communication of someone else's stage in, and perspective of the musical journey is always something I learn deeply from.

I've had people argue against this idea, but I think there may be some general tendency for musicians to be better at either reading or playing by ear/improvising.

I for one highly respect the ability of those who can sight read comfortably. It's not something I do very well, or have been able to stick with for very long. My theory is that some folks have a way of relating to life that is more acutely aware of sense objects, in a way that doesn't interfere with the open transmission to their mind of notes from a sheet of paper. The notes easily go in and come out through an instrument.

Once a piece is learned as written, these same people feel comfortable in playing it that way in front of people. Others, like myself, feel a little intimidated by the prospect of having to always "be in a certain place at a certain time" in a piece.

I've also seen (what I feel is) this basic difference in psychology create problems between musicians: One type wants to do everything "just like the record" and the other type wants more freedom. Good musicians eventually integrate enough of the other tendency to get by, but my guess is that there still may be a secret preference there someplace.

Carl, I also honor your acceptance of what God has given you, and where you're at in life. That is an attitude that would stop most problems people have from forming, if they would cultivate it.

I'm being sincere when I say that I feel the musical world needs all types of people, including the ones who can contentedly serve to recreate the great music of composers who preplan such synchronized complexity and harmony that it can only exist on the written page.

I learned an "intermediate" classical guitar piece once, and I'm not sure I ever made it through the whole thing without making a mistake.

[This message was edited by Jeff A. Smith on 18 July 2003 at 07:52 PM.]

Jeff A. Smith · Post by **Jeff A. Smith** » 18 Jul 2003 7:11 pm

I should give credit where credit is due. When I said:

My theory is that some folks have a way of relating to life that is more acutely aware of sense objects

I shouldn't have suggested that it's "my" theory. My thoughts on the subject are based on studies that the swiss psychologist Carl Jung did on psychological types. I'm not sure any Jungian psychologists have ever applied his ideas to reading music though.

Terry Williams · Post by **Terry Williams** » 18 Jul 2003 11:30 pm

Carl,your comment just you ten feet taller in my eyes.

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Terry Williams · Post by **Terry Williams** » 18 Jul 2003 11:31 pm

Carl, I intended to say, your comment just made you ten feet taller in my eyes.

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David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 19 Jul 2003 1:55 am

Given that many jazz, rock and country players have played classical music with orchestras, and that classical musicians rarely seem to stray (Julian BReam being a rare exception), I think it's safe to say that a background of playing by ear will better prepare you for reading than vice versa. Wynton Marsalis, John McLaughlin and Chet Atkins come to mind immediately.