Franklin" pedal

Mike Harmon · Post by **Mike Harmon** » 16 Sep 2002 5:45 pm

When I was looking at some of the guitars Ed Fulawka had at Scotty's, I noticed that a lot of the S10 models had 4 pedals. I asked him what the extra pedal was, and he told me it was a "Franklin" pedal. It was installed to the left of the "A" pedal. I know it lowers strings 5, 6, and 10 a whole step, but what does that mean to me as a brand-new player?

When I ordered my S10 (with 3 floors and 5 knees), I originally told Ed to leave it off, thinking it would just complicate my learning process. Since then, I've been thinking that maybe I should ask some of you pros out there if it's something I REALLY need, or is it something that I would mostly use for "cool" licks. I figure it's going to take me a few years before I really know my way around, and "cool" licks aren't where I'm planning to spend most of my time.

I know most of you have an opinion, so let's hear it!

Thanks,
Mike

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Mike Harmon
Sho-Bud Pro III Custom
Fulawka S10 (on order!)
Nashville 400

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 16 Sep 2002 6:26 pm

Mike,I'm not a pro.The Franklin pedal is used (mostly) as a lick pedal.However I would still order 4 floor pedals. If you don't like the Frank pedal you can always change it to something else. Also S-10's with 4 floor pedals have a better resale value. My 2 cents!-----bb

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 16 Sep 2002 6:44 pm

Mike of course the "Franklin" pedal is more accessable as the first pedal IMO...so if you do get it; that's where you want it and you won't have a prob..getting used to it there.
As far as you needing it?? Well I did have that option also when we brain stormed my Fulawka Copedent; but decided against it...as I use and play my copedent differently...and as one grows, they soon find out their nack for how they like to play and function on this Pedal steel thing.

Yes there are some cool moves with it...but not neccessary to make music and harmony or melody lines....and would be a cool lick here and a cool lick there; but isn't that what all the pedals and knee levers do??? Cause I can play all the same movements on my Non-pedal steels but without the bending sound of the notes from the pedals and knee levers....but it is all there if ya wanna find it and are of the insanity to do so...ha.

....so you just have to decide on it.....but I'll tell ya....Ed puts it on there as standard so it won't cost anything extra...and it WILL NOT mess with any of the mechanics of this great pedal steel, and you can call and have him do it at anytime through the proccess(as long as it's not the last day he's workin' on it..ha)....so I say what the heck; eventhough I opted against simply cause I have toooooooo much going on under there already>Click Here for my Insane Copedent...LOL.
Ricky

[This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 17 September 2002 at 09:03 AM.]

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 17 Sep 2002 4:37 am

[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 19 September 2002 at 01:35 AM.]

JB Arnold · Post by **JB Arnold** » 17 Sep 2002 7:37 am

Hi Mike

Ed put it on mine as well-although I wanted it there-and while I don't know yet what all I can do with it, I have stumbled on a couple of neat things for it just messing around-have no idea why these work, but they do and the band likes it.

I DO know that as you progress and start playing out, some of the signature licks on the songs you'll be wanting to play require that change. Also, I'm told it has a great deal of Rock and Roll value, though like you I'm not sure why yet.

What we need is a primer course on this pedal. I've brought it up before and been ignored-but I'm sure sooner or later someone will come up with something.

Like they said above, It's free, may as well have it.

JB

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Fulawka D-10 9&5
Mullen Royal Precision D-10 8 & 5
"All in all, looking back, I'd have to say the best advice anyone ever gave me was 'Hands Up, Don't Move!"
www.johnbarnold.com/pedalsteel
www.buddycage.net

http://www.nrpsmusic.com/index.html

[This message was edited by JB Arnold on 17 September 2002 at 08:37 AM.]

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 17 Sep 2002 9:45 am

Ricky-That tuning on C6 is not insane. Just good thinking.Flatting The G on top to F# on P5. that going into P7 almost like country sounds. If you separate the RR and Rl knee lever, you can get that E9 sound with pedal 5 too.

Pretty sneaky dropping that 3rd and 5th a whole tone on separate levers.

A lot of guys haven't got into that yet. It's on my C6 . Way to go....al

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 17 Sep 2002 12:15 pm

Bobby Boggs, not a pro----no, just one of the hottest steel players you ever heard!
Bobby, can I have some free stuff?

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 17 Sep 2002 1:42 pm

Ah No!

Just picking on Steve cause I can.Thanks Steve. But it's not cool to be known as a hot player.At least not here.

So keep that under your hat.

I wouldn't mind doing a talk tape on the Franklin 4th and or the split version.I do hate to do tab.For me it's so easy to hear those whole tone lowers that I can't imagine much of a market for it.However the pedal or the split version have a very commercial appeal and most licks would be easy for the intermediate student.So maybe there is a market.Got a video camera Steve?

[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 17 September 2002 at 10:48 PM.]

Bob Lawrence · Post by **Bob Lawrence** » 17 Sep 2002 2:14 pm

Mike,

If you don't get one put on your guitar how are you going to sit around (like the rest of us) and wonder what to do with it?

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George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 17 Sep 2002 4:58 pm

I am in the process of converting my E9/B6 to an Extended E9 and will be adding the Franklin Pedal. I am planning on putting it on pedal #4, but I have seen some posts that suggests pedal #1 is better. Am I making a mistake in putting it at #4? I sure could use some advice on this. It complicates things to go to Pedal #1, since that would require everything to be changed on my A, B, and C pedals, a lot of work that I don't want to do unless it is really important. Are there any knee levers or other pedals used in combination with the Franklin Pedal? Thanks to anybody that has a comment.[This message was edited by George Kimery on 18 September 2002 at 05:47 AM.]

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 17 Sep 2002 5:47 pm

Bobby

I'll buy the tape. Start talking

bob

Mike Harmon · Post by **Mike Harmon** » 17 Sep 2002 6:03 pm

Part of the reason I chose not to include the Franklin pedal was just simple ergonomics.

My guitar will have the pedals on the right hand side because of a left-leg injury I had several years ago. Because of the changer, the pedals will already be farther from the end of the guitar than would be the case on a "normal" guitar. They will be configured in a "mirror" configuration with the "A" pedal on the right. I was a little concerned that adding the Franklin pedal to the right of the "A" pedal would put the "A" pedal too far to the left for comfortable playing.

Before anyone asks how in heck I am going to use a volume pedal, I've already got that one licked! I purchased a Fender volume/tone pedal and reversed the pots. I can twist my left ankle, but can't lift my toes. Using a side-to-side volume pedal arrangement is going to work just fine! I'm determined to make this work! I've loved steel guitar ever since I messed around with a homemade lap steel back in the early Sixties, and I'm determined to make this work!

BTW, once I get the Fulawka, I'm going to sell the old Sho-Bud. I thought I could figure out a way to play it, but it didn't work out.

Mike

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 18 Sep 2002 12:46 am

Thanks Al for the comments on my C6th Copedent....and yes that is my whole intentions there...ha....so I can play more within MY style of playing C6......and yeah I was sneeky on those two knees...ha.
Mike my brother; I'm so impressed you going for this; eventhough it may be difficult....you do have all the willpower as I can see it in your postings....Good for you.
Ricky

John Sluszny · Post by **John Sluszny** » 18 Sep 2002 7:02 am

George Kimery.
Why don't you put it on a new pedal (pedal #"0"),to the left of pedal #1 (A pedal)?Of course you'll need a new pedal installed on the pedal board.
I (like many others)have it this way on my Carter Single 12 Universal( 8+5).And it's real easy to use because it's next to both A&B pedals.Good luck.
JS[This message was edited by John Sluszny on 18 September 2002 at 08:13 AM.]

Reggie Duncan · Post by **Reggie Duncan** » 18 Sep 2002 7:19 pm

I like the change, but I think I would like the 5th string lower and 6th string lower on seperate knees.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 19 Sep 2002 1:51 am

I've only recently aquired a Steel with this Franklin pedal ( less than a month ) and the few phrases that I am working on with the change are a nice addition . I can see that having it on the far left would be a more practicle location for it when used alone and perhaps I'll spend another one of those saturdays making the change and being hopeful that I will like it . The issues I see causing me to think more about moving it to the far left is the location of the Bb lever in relationship to the B pedal and E Raise lever(LKL) and the relationship of this Franklin pedal on the far left with the E lower lever ( LKR) . I'm not a gymnastics major. Don't get me wrong, I can hit the softball but running the bases is another subject ! Any thoughts here ? I'm thinking Paul may have placed it in the 4th position for a reaason..ya think ?

I currently have begun using it on the "V" chord change along with the E lower lever(LKR) and the first string raise (RKL) whole tone lever.

tp

KENNY KRUPNICK · Post by **KENNY KRUPNICK** » 19 Sep 2002 10:56 pm

I would put it on a 2nd LKL towards the front of the guitar,or like someone else said put each change on a separate lever.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 20 Sep 2002 5:37 am

After messing with that change for 10 yrs or more, I have had it on
- a single knee lever (a 'front' staggered LKL as mentioned)
- split into two levers
- on a pedal in the '0' position (left of A and B)
- on P4

When you split it, you have two new changes that are difficult to synchronize and execute as quickly and smoothly as would be required for typical uses of the 'Franklin pedal'. It's kinda like replacing the C pedal with E to F# on a lever and using it with the A+B -- the notes are there -- the motion is not. You can play licks with the B+C pedals you can't pull off with the lever + A + B. I never found the B to A change particularly useful on its own and I've used G# to F# for years, as have many others.

BY FAR, the best solution I've found is with this change on a pedal to the left of the A and B pedals. I can still use it for most of the same musical transitions I get with G# to F# alone (although the 5th string will go down a whole step -- whether you like it or not --

)

Since I use it on a U-12 guitar, I have split the high and low octaves but may combine them on my new guitar onto the first (0) pedal. (there's also one more change on that pedal, F# to F on 7, but it doesn't get in the way of the 'Franklin pedal' function) This is my current setup (FWIW)

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 20 September 2002 at 07:40 AM.]

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 20 Sep 2002 11:18 pm

Tommy White has the best copendent for this change if you're going to split it and you use the Day set-up.He has both changes on knees.For proof just buy his new CD.He wears these changes out on every tune except the ones he plays on C6th.The problem, if you split with a knee and say pedal 0 or pedal 4 is you can't use pedal B unless you use both feet.Hope this makes sense it's 3:15am here in the east.Good night.-------------------bb

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 21 Sep 2002 9:06 am

Bobby

Is there somewhere that I could hear some licks with this change? (Don't have the cd yet)

thx

bob

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 21 Sep 2002 10:48 am

Bob: Try this http://www.steelguitar.com/sound/sound.htm#TommyWhiteByRequestCD. He uses the changes a few times in the shuffle.As a matter of fact he uses about everything he's got in this tune.

--bb

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 21 Sep 2002 11:11 am

Bob. I haven't heard this clip.Unless Ann put the last half on the song on you want hear the change.A better example would be Tommy's Tesa"s Waltz,Wichita Lineman, I'm moving On Pick Me UP and Walk thru this world with Me.Actually every E9 tune except maybe Steel Minor. Hope this helps.Get the CD

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 21 Sep 2002 11:29 am

Thanks, Bobby

Could you tell me at what point what change is being used?( 13 seconds, g#- f#, or?)

Sorry, I'm not good enough to hear the change; When Tommy plays, it all sounds like magic

thx

bob

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 24 Sep 2002 4:49 am

"cool" licks aren't where I'm planning to spend most of my time.

You just answered your own question! No, you probably don't need the "Franklin pedal" (considering you have only 3+5).

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 26 Sep 2002 6:54 pm

My copedant has always allowed me the same notes as the split fourth pedal. I just go about it in a different way. I raise the seventh string a whole tone which gives me the low G# along with the F# at the same time, which is what splitting the fourth pedal is all about. When I use the F# to G# lever along with the fourth pedal I get the split possibilities. The only difference is I use the seventh string instead of the sixth string when I seek those harmonies. Splitting the fourth pedal is something I certainly recommend.
Paul