Fretboard not perfect?

Albert Svenddal · Post by **Albert Svenddal** » 22 Mar 2014 1:25 pm

Has anyone had problems with the frets on the fretboard not being true to pitch thus having to slant the bar a little to play in tune?

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 22 Mar 2014 2:05 pm

SLANT?!?
That's out of tune, unless your frets make parallelograms instead of rectangles, or not on straight).
I have one guitar whose artwork frets are misplaced, but I just adjust by ear.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 22 Mar 2014 2:13 pm

To quote my friend Mike Cass, "the frets are only a suggestion, anyway."

That said, a S~B Maverick (1st gen w/stick-on fretboard) that I use for non-pedal, had a fretboard that was off about a 3/32ds of an inch, which is definitely out of tune. I lifted the board and moved it appropriately.

Stuart Legg · Post by **Stuart Legg** » 22 Mar 2014 4:22 pm

Close is good enough when you use a ½ inch of Rolling Bar Shiver Vibrato and/or Hand Grenades .

Frank Welsh · Post by **Frank Welsh** » 23 Mar 2014 4:53 am

Suggestion: check the accuracy of the bridge to nut placement to make sure the actual string length is what the intended scale of the guitar is.

I was amazed --- I bought a mint-condition Fender Deluxe 6 steel and found that the adjustable bridge would not extend the string length back far enough to allow accurate notes with the bar placed over the frets (22 1/2 inch scale). All my notes were coming up sharp. With the help of a ruler I could see that the the bridge assembly was about 1/4 inch short of the adjustment needed even with the bridge adjusted all the way back. And this was a Fender and I've owned other Fenders with no problem. I'm still scratching my head.

Just a thought - you never know.

Rick Barnhart · Post by **Rick Barnhart** » 23 Mar 2014 5:53 am

Albert Svenddal wrote:Has anyone had problems with the frets on the fretboard not being true to pitch thus having to slant the bar a little to play in tune?

I'm definately puttin' that one in my bag of excuses

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 23 Mar 2014 6:15 am

I have worked on several well known guitars that had the fretboard misplaced by as much as 1/8" as well as seeing some that had silk screened fretboards that were simply off due to excess pressure on the silk screen causing the scale to be off.

Dickie Whitley · Post by **Dickie Whitley** » 23 Mar 2014 9:44 am

...I may be wrong and stand to be corrected, but I think Jeff Newman once made the comment that "the frets lie", it just means it's around here someplace, not necessarily right on top of the fret reference (which is really what it is, a reference point).

Just my 2 cents, YMMV.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 23 Mar 2014 9:52 am

Slanting the bar to play in tune sounds more like not all of the intervals are tuned well...

Randy Gilliam · Post by **Randy Gilliam** » 23 Mar 2014 10:11 am

I new it could not have been me!

Les Cargill · Post by **Les Cargill** » 23 Mar 2014 10:25 am

Lane Gray wrote:SLANT?!?
That's out of tune, unless your frets make parallelograms instead of rectangles, or not on straight).
I have one guitar whose artwork frets are misplaced, but I just adjust by ear.

What about all those fanned-fret pedal steels?

Loren Morehouse · Post by **Loren Morehouse** » 23 Mar 2014 6:43 pm

Yep, I found out the hard way there's not just the length, there's also the angle. Especially when you change out a fretboard like a Sho-Bud, Emmons, etc. I praise manufacturers that make a fretboard that is wear resistant like Zum and the Stage One guitars!! Fartin' around with fretboards is a pain and a needless task unless it is in such dire shape or you really want to change the board out!! Then get ready for a learning experience!! Loren.

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 24 Mar 2014 6:20 am

If I notice the fret board isn't quite accurate, I just move my seat over a little to compensate.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 24 Mar 2014 11:12 am

How you say... parallax?

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 24 Mar 2014 11:45 am

Did you happen to check to see if your bar didn't get bent?

Jonathan Cullifer · Post by **Jonathan Cullifer** » 24 Mar 2014 1:53 pm

I have noticed that all of my guitars are off from each other, by up to 1/8"...it would be okay if every guitar was the same, but they are all off by a different amount. It takes me about half an hour to adjust and then life goes on...

As far as the "slant" issue, I find that it's important to check my tuning up the fretboard, sometimes what sounds in tune open isn't really as you move up the fretboard. It's likely caused by the different string heights and uneven pressure...and it's one of the reasons that electric guitars have adjustable bridge saddles.

Jim Williams · Post by **Jim Williams** » 25 Mar 2014 11:21 am

The fretboard on a BMI I sold recently obviously had been moved down about 1/8 inch or so. (I told the buyer about it and sent him a photo). It still seemed to be to be just a tiny bit off around the 10th to 12th fret though. I never knew if somebody had moved the fretboard or possibly replaced it at some point. I recently looked at a lap steel build by a local craftsman (unnamed) the there was about 1/8 inch gap at one side of where the fretboard joins the nut. I decided to pass on this one.

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 25 Mar 2014 2:01 pm

I don't know how to say this other than just say it. Albert is a great steel guitar player and definitely not one to take lightly. Anyone who has heard him play would say the same. I'm not sure what his fretboard problems are but he has the ear to know something is wrong and I respect what he is saying. I do know I have to "stretch" into certain notes to sound in tune, sometimes it is by increased pressure on the tail of the bar and other times it is a slight slant of the bar. A straight bar combined with a straight bridge, temper tuned strings, constantly changing string temp from the hands all contribute to this. Albert, to answer your question I have certainly noticed this problem. I had a new guitar several years ago that the first 5 frets were off and it did cause me problems. Although the fret is only a marker I think over time our eyes and brain get pretty good at placing the bar right on the mark.
Jerry

Albert Svenddal · Post by **Albert Svenddal** » 27 Mar 2014 11:41 pm

Hey Jerry, thanks for the compliment ! Please contact me when
you can, I would appreciate it.

Thanks.
Gospelsteeler@aol.com

Bill Duncan · Post by **Bill Duncan** » 28 Mar 2014 4:11 am

I put new fretboards on my guitar a couple of years ago and had the same problem. It took me a few days to get right again. I don't know what the problem was, but it really threw me for a while. I got mine from Tom Bradshaw, and they were perfect, just different. They were actually closer to the scale than the old ones. But it was tough to get used to them.

Rick Barnhart · Post by **Rick Barnhart** » 28 Mar 2014 5:20 am

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I've often wondered about the short appearance of fret number one on Mullen guitars. I used to take face to face lessons from a Mullen owner...kinda threw me off when we got down close to the keyhead.

John De Maille · Post by **John De Maille** » 28 Mar 2014 7:52 am

Rick Barnhart wrote:I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I've often wondered about the short appearance of fret number one on Mullen guitars. I used to take face to face lessons from a Mullen owner...kinda threw me off when we got down close to the keyhead.

It's probably laid out that way in consideration to where the strings touch the roller nuts. Just a guess.

Shorty Rogers · Post by **Shorty Rogers** » 28 Mar 2014 8:07 am

Albert, I found that sometimes octave pairs which were in tune open did not sound in tune at the twelfth fret while an adjacent octave pair did sound in tune. For example, G# strings not in tune at 12 while B strings were. If that is what you have going on, try changing the string gauge slightly on the string you think is not fretting out properly. That has worked for me.

Tom Bradshaw · Post by **Tom Bradshaw** » 28 Mar 2014 3:44 pm

The person who coined the phrase, "Fret line are just guides, not absolutes" knew what he was talking about.

However, here is a good guide.
1) Determine the neck length of the guitar. This is done by measuring the distance from the center of the nut to the center of the bridge. On most pedal steels, it will be 24", but could be different on several brands.
2) Next, measure from the center of the nut to the 12th fret line. That line should be exactly half the distance between the nut and the bridge (which is half the distance of the neck's length...hey, you knew that!).
3) Measure from the center of the nut to the 5th fret line. That should be exactly 1/4 the distance of the whole neck length. Note: You might have a fret board that you can match the 12th fret of the board to the half-way point between the nut and bridge. But if the 5th fret is not 6" from the nut (on a 24" neck length), you surely have the wrong fret board on the guitar!

Thus, if any of these measurements are not true, the fret board has been improperly placed or the guitar or the wrong board was put on it.

Granted, the nut could be positioned in the wrong place. But regardless, to have an in-tune guitar, the above measurements should match up with the neck length. ...Tom

Albert Svenddal · Post by **Albert Svenddal** » 28 Mar 2014 4:17 pm

Thanks for all the great advice. I talked with Jerry and he mentioned
a few things to try. Shorty, I will try your idea as well.

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