How important is a mid range tone control on a steel amp?

[Jim Williams]

I recently picked up a Fender Champion 40 amp for a practice amp and lightweight amp for jam sessions.

I didn't really notice before getting it that the amp only has a bass and treble control and no mid range.

I have it sounding pretty good, but I was just curious as to how important experienced steel players consider the mid range control to be.

I've only had this a few days and could return it and just eat a little shipping. For another 50 bucks or so I can pick up a demo model Roland Cube 40GX which has the mid range control and a few other goodies.

Also, a Peavey Vypyr® VIP 2 40 watt amp is another candidate.

Opinions?

[Ken Campbell]

If it sounds good as it is......

[Ian Rae]

Where do you set the midrange on your Nashville?

[Lane Gray]

The Little Walter has a knob marked "tone." It's good enough for Paul F.
The only relevant questions are:
Does it sound good?, and;
Does it have adequate headroom for the conditions under which you'll use it?

My first steel amp was an Ampeg B15. Had two tone knobs, many on here have thought it sounds good.

[Jim Williams]

Thanks Lane. I also had noticed that the Vypr promotes itself as being designed with input setups for Bass and Acoustic guitars as well as electric...this could be a plus as I play a little bass at small jam sessions and have a very inadequate amp for that. Yes, the Fender does sound good but I was a little disappointed in the delay effect on it. However, this will probably be about the same on any of these amps.

[Donny Hinson]

Often with just a bass and treble, you can't get a lot of sounds. If the amp does exactly what you want it to, then nothing else is necessary. But if you're like many players, there's always that "something extra" that you'd like to have when it comes to sound. A mid control goes a long way to give you just that, and a mid-shift control does even more, allowing you near complete control of voicing and tone.

I can usually get a good tone without a mid control, but it requires a closed-back speaker cabinet to get any kind of fullness and bass when you can't "dial out the mids". Steels are unique, because you're playing a solid body instrument, but it only has a bridge pickup, so good, solid bass...especially without soggy-damp treble, is really hard to come by.

The Little Walter has a knob marked "tone." It's good enough for Paul F.

I love Paul's playing, but his tone is a little flat and middy for my tastes. I want some sharpness on top strings, and fullness on the bottom strings...sort of "Charleton with the bright switch on". Admittedly, that type of sound probably wouldn't go over too big in Nashville these days.

[chris ivey]

i'd like a mid control. alot of smaller amps just don't give you a full tone palette.
jim..if you've got a semi-decent sound just play it that way. your tone will develop the more you play.

[Lane Gray]

BUT, if that Fender Champion is cheap enough, a used 6 or 7 band EQ could give you all you need, for not much.
EDIT: Donny, I kinda agree with you about Paul's tone (but he sounded pretty good on Leno through that Twin). OTOH, he works more than either of us...

[Brett Lanier]

OTOH, he works more than either of us...

And I'm pretty sure he played on the Randy Travis classic, "On the Other Hand".

[Lane Gray]

Doesn't sound like Paul here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyL5NqSlLCM

[Robert Parent]

Depends on the amp........ I have a small Music Man, 50w, 1-12, which sounds great with only the bass and treble control. I have used other amps with several tone controls and they sound like crap.

Robert

[Steve Hinson]

OTOH, he works more than either of us...

And I'm pretty sure he played on the Randy Travis classic, "On the Other Hand".

Doyle Grisham played on"On the Other Hand".

[Brad Sarno]

Transistor amps REALLY need some hefty midrange control and removal to deal with the inherent harshness.

Tube amps don't need as much midrange control, but a little bit of dip, like the way a typical '60s/'70s Fender naturally does it is plenty. Even with an amp with only bass and treble controls and NO midrange control, there's still plenty of flexibility there for most anyone. On a Tweed style tube amp EQ like in the Little Walter that has NO midrange dip at all, that sound works really well for a lot of players because the midrange is SO nice sounding, very rich and warm and 3D.

The midrange energy in a tube amp tends to be very rich and lush in the harmonic content so we don't want to remove it. In a solid state amp, the midrange can be dense and harsh and dry, so removing some or a lot of it with midrange dip EQ can really help make it more pleasant sounding.


B

[Chris Rice]

On many amps, turning down the bass and treble while turning up they volume results in a mid boost, the opposite can give a mid cut. That's how my B-15 works. I played it for years with the tone controls dimed, thinking "more" rather than mid-cut.

[Dave Campbell]

amps with no mid control can have one added by replacing the "mids" resistor coming off the bass control to ground with say a 10k or 25k log A pot (on a fender amp anyway). you can even use a mini pot and stick it out the back of your amp. it'd be a handy feature to dial out mids in less than perfect playing situations where you find it hard to hear yourself.

chris' suggestion works well, too.

[Dave Grafe]

Fender amps have a mid-cut designed into them, generally sweeping between about 300HZ and 1200Hz as the treble control is decreased.

[Donny Hinson]

That's true, Dave, but sacrificing your favorite treble setting to get a good mid sound isn't exactly ideal. It works, but in an ersatz fashion.

[Brad Sarno]

Donny, that's a good point. Fender's don't always nail the best midrange dip frequency when you find your ideal treble setting. But in practice it's often just right and not an issue at all. Just ask Lloyd.

Many don't understand that the Fender's midrange dip frequency moves around according to where the treble is set. This is why in my tube preamps that are based on the Fender tone-stack EQ circuit, I've modded values so that the midrange falls right into steel-friendly territory when treble is in the ballpark steel-friendly area too. On the Revelation, I've added the "Color" control to over-ride and take control of that factor so one can truly dial in the desired mid frequency. But even on the V8 with only Bass and Treble control, we've really got the midrange right where many/most steel players seem to want it.

I find with tube preamps and tube amps, it's just not all that fussy to get the sound. It's the transistor amps that are SO picky and unforgiving with regards to EQ.

B

[Tim Marcus]

copy that Brad - the Milkman EQ is the exact same way: tweaked for optimal steel usage. Fender is always too bright for my ear, even with the treble down most of the way, and then the midrange is too honky.

transistor amps are fussier because the EQ boosts as well as cuts, which is never going to sound good for an instrument. Passive is the way to go!

[Tom Wolverton]

Maybe I'm not that picky, but my ShoBud sounds great thru a Deluxe Reverb and it doesn't even have a Middle control. Tonal fine tuning can be had with my Sarno Freeloader.