My Milkman 20w

Jonathan Lam · Post by **Jonathan Lam** » 8 Jul 2013 7:19 am

This is long overdue, but I have been using a Milkman 20w amp for steel and guitar stuff since January and its made me sell my beloved 73 Princeton Reverb which I used for most of my work.
I play out almost every single night in NYC, and its a perfect combination of size, weight and volume, Tim put a lower gain tube in the V1 socket and its clean almost all the way up to 10. It has been used on some high profile recording sessions, and no matter what studios have I almost always bring the amp instead of using what they have.
The reverb and trem are top notch, if I need to get spacey, although I play with very little reverb.
The amp is beautiful and it only leaves me wanting more Milkman's!
For guitar, i find the lower gain input tube requires me to use guitars with higher output or have a boost pedal to goose it a little bit if Im using strat or tele guitars but when it i can get the amp cooking, the natural breakup is super smooth and nice, it gives me just enough hair but still extremely punchy.
All in all a great amp that I am excited to use every day!

Daniel Policarpo · Post by **Daniel Policarpo** » 10 Jul 2013 12:23 pm

Are you using a 12AY7 in the V1 socket?

Tim Marcus · Post by **Tim Marcus** » 11 Jul 2013 8:21 am

yes - there is a 12AY7 in the preamp stage in Johnny's amp. I also added one other resistor to the circuit in order to maximize clean headroom for him.

I do a lot of gigging with my 20W Milkman as well. Its my main amp and has taken way more abuse than any other piece of equipment that I have ever owned. Its been across the USA a handful of times, in and out venues in SF and I frequently lend it out for folks to demo. I have a full set of NOS RCA and Tung Sol tubes in mine - 5881's on the output.

Here is a pic of my little rig which I use about 5 days a week here in SF:

thanks for the kind words Johnny!

Steve Lipsey · Post by **Steve Lipsey** » 12 Jul 2013 7:19 am

I have the same rig....just bought a bottle of Crown Royal to complete the process (note purple pick/bar bag hanging on the Williams, mine has one also now)

Oh yeah...I don't have a Creston Tele yet...

And I just sent my Milkman Guitar Amp back to Tim to be converted to a Milkman Pedal Steel Mini - it will change from 22 watts to 40 watts and have the 3-band EQ from the Big Dog Pedal Steel Amp, will be good for everything, with a little more headroom...also adding a bias switch so I can go back down to the guitar amp sound whenever (Guitar Amp cathode bias vs. Mini fixed bias). I lose the Tremolo, gain the EQ and a Reverb Tone control...will be a Deluxe Reverb on steroids, hiding in a small, light cabinet!

Jonathan Lam · Post by **Jonathan Lam** » 12 Jul 2013 8:53 am

Steve, let me know how it works out!! super curious!

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 12 Jul 2013 10:44 am

Good lord, I'm getting dizzy......
(I have been sleeping on the idea of Milkman for a while now and I'd been zeroing in on what I thought I wanted but Steve's description really turned my head.)

Steve Lipsey · Post by **Steve Lipsey** » 12 Jul 2013 10:49 am

Jon (and others) -
Tim can be a big help in configuring your amp, but I either had or will have every one in the lineup (I can't afford to keep them all, unfortunately) , and you also are welcome to call me to chat about the differences I've found, if you like - there definitely are some.. My number is: nine seven eight three eight seven four one eight four

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 12 Jul 2013 11:02 am

Thanks Steve. I am (and have been) in communication with Tim as I dream up my amp. His evaluation of this amp he is working for you is of utmost interest to me. I am dreaming of a Princetonish rig. What I'll want to know is how much of the 20 Watter's character lives in your switchable mini (understanding that it will likely be more powerful than that on the cath-bias side). If it is close enough, then it would be a dream amp for me (the Sideman is bigger than I'm looking for.) With a 15" Telonics. And as unoriginal as the idea now is, it just might have to be freakin seafoam green.

Bill Ladd · Post by **Bill Ladd** » 12 Jul 2013 12:04 pm

Jon Light wrote:And as unoriginal as the idea now is, it just might have to be freakin seafoam green.

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 12 Jul 2013 12:24 pm

Relative to the 4 hour warning in Cialis commercials, I have been way, way in the danger zone since seeing pictures of your amp, Bill.

Bill Ladd · Post by **Bill Ladd** » 12 Jul 2013 5:37 pm

Well, whatcha waitin for?

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 12 Jul 2013 7:51 pm

If you go for that color, green chicken heads and green pilot light.

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 13 Jul 2013 5:43 am

@ Bill---I got, I got, I got the hesitation blues.
I'm awaiting some conversation with Tim after he has completed this conversion for Steve. I need to consider my realistic needs and I need to watch out for duplication of function with other amps I've got. I already have an amp that except for its being a 2 x 12" (Tone King) is rather similar in switchable awesome sounding clean/dirty utility as the newly to-be-configured Lipsey Special.
And I've got to watch out for size creep. First thing that got me thinking was 'grab & go'. It's easy to keep upgrading until it's no longer the subcompact you had in mind.

Hey Jonathan--sorry for the hijack!

Marc Jenkins · Post by **Marc Jenkins** » 13 Jul 2013 8:08 am

Tim Marcus wrote:yes - there is a 12AY7 in the preamp stage in Johnny's amp. I also added one other resistor to the circuit in order to maximize clean headroom for him.

I do a lot of gigging with my 20W Milkman as well. Its my main amp and has taken way more abuse than any other piece of equipment that I have ever owned. Its been across the USA a handful of times, in and out venues in SF and I frequently lend it out for folks to demo. I have a full set of NOS RCA and Tung Sol tubes in mine - 5881's on the output.

Here is a pic of my little rig which I use about 5 days a week here in SF:

thanks for the kind words Johnny!

Tim, how do you match levels/eq between tele and steel when sharing a channel?

Steve Lipsey · Post by **Steve Lipsey** » 13 Jul 2013 10:32 am

FYI, the Pedal Steel Mini that I am getting wasn't my idea - Tim thought of it, built a prototype, and it got sold to a fiddle player right away....then he figured he could mod existing Guitar Amps to be the Mini, since it was based on that chassis and cabinet anyway...I don't use Tremolo, and adding much better EQ, more watts, and reverb tone seemed like a clear win ....I play steel and dobro..

I'm keeping it in the Guitar Amp cab, with a 12" speaker, for portability....he can make it in a larger cab, with a 15", but I'd just get a Sideman if that was of interest - even more power,and two channels. (Oh wait, that is what I have also!)

The Pedal Steel Amp, with that monster transformer and 4x6L6 output, still has the "biggest" sound, and the most power, but I'm going to sacrifice "that sound" for a more practical solution to my specific needs, plus "almost that sound". My pedal steel amp will get sold as soon as the Mini arrives...the sounds and responsiveness are similar across the range of Milkman amps, but the Big Dog has a sense of fullness, note separation and clarity - at every volume level from bedroom to earth-shaking - not found to quite the same degree in the smaller amps, at least to my ears. The others are still leagues above what else I've played, of course....

Tim Marcus · Post by **Tim Marcus** » 15 Jul 2013 7:22 pm

Marc Jenkins wrote:Tim, how do you match levels/eq between tele and steel when sharing a channel?

I keep them exactly the same - here are my settings.

Vol 5
Treb 7
Bass 8
Reverb 2.5

I play a tele with P90's and it has a much hotter output than my steel does. I compensate with both the way I play and the volume pedal. If the tele is not bright enough with a passive pedal, I will sometimes add a Blues Driver before the volume pedal.

My emmons has a tone knob - so I can turn up the treble more on the amp to make the tele perfect and dial it back on the steel. If I go high volume, sometimes I need to do this. Most of the time I just keep them the same.

here are two videos with me playing with the same settings at the same gig one on tele one on steel with my 20W Milkman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRJLxSl5Zg8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KodOxMbj6PI

Marc Jenkins · Post by **Marc Jenkins** » 15 Jul 2013 9:06 pm

Excellent, thanks Tim!

Tim Marcus · Post by **Tim Marcus** » 22 Aug 2013 10:27 am

Here's a quick gut shot of a 20W I recently completed

This one will be coming on my east coast run and then living there with an east coast rig (my Rains D10). 20W covers 95% of my bases

Mark Fowler · Post by **Mark Fowler** » 22 Aug 2013 4:24 pm

Retro looks with great new components love the look of that amp Tim.

I'm not a steel player but I'm itching to maybe get started on one and build a nice amp with a Telonic speaker for shits and giggles.

Stay healthy Tim my dreams of an amp business were shattered when I had heart surgery January 2012 no energy to work steady on them anymore.

But I'm a fan of the builders on this forum you guys do great work, Sarno, Fox, Dan (FYD), Phil (LW) and Tim.

Mark

Tim Marcus · Post by **Tim Marcus** » 22 Aug 2013 5:03 pm

Mark that Telonics speaker is going to blow your mind. Its the *perfect* speaker for clean chimey tones - a few 20W owners have them and love them for guitar. Not everybody plays pedal steel - but so far everybody loves that Telonics speaker.

one of my clients took his Telonics loaded 20W to Paul Languedoc in Vermont and he really dug it. At one point Paul was a big time audio engineer and now he just builds outrageous guitars.

Honestly, I can not say enough good things about that speaker

Steve Lipsey · Post by **Steve Lipsey** » 22 Aug 2013 8:47 pm

Hmmm.....maybe Paul can talk Trey into ditching the Mesa and getting back to a Deluxe...but in the form of a Milkman 20w instead of the actual Deluxe....

Michael Stephens · Post by **Michael Stephens** » 23 Aug 2013 1:30 am

Hey Tim - can you remind us how much that 20W weighs? Thx

Tom Wolverton · Post by **Tom Wolverton** » 23 Aug 2013 4:58 am

Tim, does this amp have a 4 ohm output tranny? Probably, right? Since you are using the Telonics Neo 12? Will you switch to 8 ohm OT if Telonics offers the 12" in 8 ohms?

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 23 Aug 2013 5:08 am

Tom---from my own situation I think I can answer that. I have ordered a 20W amp with a 15" Telonics. Tim had to check, before confirming this, to see that Mercury Magnetics could custom wind a 4 ohm transformer for this (yes, they could). I take this to mean that whatever the chosen speaker (4 or 8 Ω), the tranny could be had. As you may or may not know, Telonics has issued or will be issuing 8 Ω 12's.

Tim Marcus · Post by **Tim Marcus** » 23 Aug 2013 6:28 am

Michael Stephens wrote:Hey Tim - can you remind us how much that 20W weighs? Thx

About 35lbs all said and done

Since I custom build each amp - I can build them with just about any output impedance. Getting a 4 ohm output transformer was cake. Got a 16 ohm celestion you want in there? No problem I can do that too

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