Gibson ES-355 question....

[Roger Rettig]

I bought this new in 2006 but have come to the realisation that, unless I remove the Bigsby tailpiece, it's not going to get played. I know I should have opted for the stop-tailpiece from new but I was being nostalgic for the Gibson I wasn't able to afford in 1960....

Is it possible to change it, does anyone know? I know I'd prefer a shorter string length and the greater stability of a stop t/p so I'm wondering if this is something that anyone else has ever tackled.

[Glenn Uhler]

You can't change the string length without changing the fretboard, Roger, because the 12th fret determines where the bridge goes. The tailpiece can easily be changed to a fixed one. Does that model Gibson have fixed bridge posts or a floating bridge? If you remove the Bigsby, you might want to also change the bridge to a more rigid one. That will give a better "acoustic" sound.

[Roger Rettig]

Glenn:

I meant overall string length - if the string is anchored at the tailpiece as on a non-Bigsby guitar then the string length will be shorter. The measurement between nut and bridge saddle is, of course, unalterable.

There's maybe another 3" of string required to wrap around the Bigsby unit. It's my understanding that a longer string will be tighter when tuned to pitch.

My 355 does have the standard Tunomatic bridge and its posts are drilled into the body somehow - I've forgotten exactly how a non-Bigsby ES guitar is configured in this regard.

[Walter Killam]

Hi Roger,

I'm sure there are plenty of people more qualified than I am but for what it's worth - I don't see how you could add a wrap around bridge to an archtop guitar, but you should be able to add a tailpiece that would shorten the overall string length:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_ta ... piece.html

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_ta ... piece.html

[Roger Rettig]

Thanks for the links, Walter. However, most of these ES series guitars are not, strictly speaking, arch-tops. There's a solid centre-piece the entire length of the body.

Most of them have no tailpiece - 335s, 345s 347s and lots of 355s - and have the wraparound stop-bar. Fitting a standard tailpiece like the ones at StewMac wouldn't improve things as the string-length wouldn't change.

I've looked at a photo in one of my Gibson books and I see that a non-Bigsby ES has the Tunomatic in the same spot as my 355 has it but the wraparound bar is situated maybe an inch behind that. Clearly the body would need drilling (through the top and into the fillet of solid wood inside the guitar) and some sort of brass grommet plugging the holes.

This may be too much of a job to even contemplate...

[Walter Killam]

I knew I should have done some more spelunking on the net before I posted!

a quick look shows the 355 with a fairly standard looking stop tailpiece.




these are widely available also, but I'd be scared to death of installing one myself.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_ta ... piece.html

[Roger Rettig]

There it is, Walter - thank you!

As you say, a daunting task; I may have to live with my mistake (ordering the Bigsby). Of course, a competent luthier could do this with his eyes closed (a figure of speech, I know ) but this project will probably die stillborn.

[Jerry Hayes R.I.P.]

Hey Roger, nice guitar there for sure... Yes a competent repairman (luthier) could do the job easily and all the parts needed are easily available through Stewart/McDonald and others. He'll also have to "re-ground" the guitar in that the ground wire is usually coming out of the end of the guitar under the tailpiece. Stud tailpiece guitars are usually grounded to the "stud" part so that'll need to be done.... It shouldn't be a "high dollar" modification unless the repairman's a crook.. You'll also need to have the Bigsby screw holes filled and finished over but I think you'll like what you wind up with if it's done right.... Have a good 'un........JH in Va.

[Dave Hopping]

Definitely a job for a capable luthier,but it gets done quite a bit.Seems to me I've seen a number of 335-45-55's on Gbase that had been converted from Bigsby to stop-tailpiece.And you could probably recover part of the conversion cost by selling the Bigsby.Looks pretty clean.

[Barry Blackwood]

Of course, a competent luthier could do this with his eyes closed...

Take it in Roger, time's a-wastin'!

[Bill Hatcher]

did you try the guitar with the spring out of the bigsby? i would do that first before you drill for the stop tpiece. you might want to remove the handle. see if it gets closer to what you want.

i used my 355 for years without the spring. locks the strings down nice.

i sold mine a few years ago. nice guitar.

[Bill Terry]

I put a stop tailpiece on an ES-345 about 35 years ago... worked fine. I taped up the top real well for protection, marked the dimensions very clearly and carefully, and drilled it out very slowly.. by hand!!! I would recommend some sort of jig like they sell for hand drills to hold it in perfect vertical alignment, or better yet, if you have a drill press that will accomodate the lower bout use that.

BUT... I was a dumb kid, and just 'did it'. Even though the potential for disaster was real, it turned out fine, but I WAS nervous. Knocking in the inserts was a bit scary too. It took some good pops with the body cradled.

Interesting story, before I did the mod, I took that guitar to a local guitar guy; very reputable and experienced (i.e. old) and he took a look at it and refused the work. He told me that if Gibson had wanted to put a stop tailpiece on that guitar that they would have put it there, and he didn't want to do something that 'wasn't right'. Of course the fact that the ES series started life with stop tailpieces when introduced years before didn't hold much water with him. So I did it myself..

All that said, I agree, a good repair guy would see this as an easy job, and would probably be worth the bux. As for feel, it made all the difference in the world to me, the string tension changes in a good way (think Les Paul feel) especially when you bend strings. I was VERY happy with the results, at least for the style of music I was playing in those days. And the tone seemed crisper and more defined. IMO it was a great change, and is one of the reasons those old ES series guitars with stop tailpieces sound so good.

I'd be curious if removing the spring as Bill suggests would get you there, it seems like a good (and reversible) idea to me.

[Roger Rettig]

Bill Terry: Great story!

That was my thinking - reducing string tension. If I put strings on it that feel light enough for me then the guitar simply doesn't work properly. It's a Gibson and I want a little weight in the strings and for it to fight back a little bit.

I'm an habitual Tele player, though, so my tendency is to go down to .009s. That's too light for the 355 and defeats the object of such a guitar. Hence it's lain in its case unused. If I can get some heavier strings on it and still manipulate the strings a bit I bet it'll work really well.

The Bigsby was a crazy notion and it was just my nostalgia kicking in and reminding that 355 that Tony Mottola was playing in the 1960 Gibson catalogue - it looked so cool! I also recall the late Big Jim Sullivan playing one behind Gene Vincent and Eddie Cochran in Britain that same year; when the stage-lights caught all that gold-plate and m-o-p I was transfixed!

There are only two weeks before I leave for my 15 week gig in ND so this will probably have to wait until I come home again in September. It will go to a guitar-tech for this - me with a hand-drill??? There'd be carnage!

Thanks to everyone who's taken the trouble to contribute - it's much appreciated.

[Brint Hannay]

Walter, in your pic, there appear to be two dark "stains" behind the stop tailpiece that seem to roughly correspond to the locations of the forward mounting screws of the Bigsby in Roger's pic. Could the guitar in your pic be a conversion? Seems to me that would be one of the issues in making a Bigsby-to-stop-tailpiece conversion: dealing with the appearance of the screw holes left behind by the Bigsby. Personally, I'd value function over appearance every time.

[Dave Mudgett]

Sure, one can do this, but I probably wouldn't do it to a beautiful guitar like this.

First, changing from a Bigsby to a stop tailpiece will not reduce the nominal string tension at pitch. That is strictly determined by scale length. The longer string length behind the bridge may have some small effect on tension required to bend strings, but I would never drill holes in a pristine ES-355 just for that. Bigsby versions have a particular tone, some prefer it and others don't, it depends on what you're after. My take is that people who play rock and blues do tend to prefer the stop tailpiece, but the Bigsby lends a nice shimmer to the sound, even lending a bit of Gretsch vibe if you want it. Others yet prefer a standard archtop tailpiece, as was used from the mid-60s onward on many Gibson semi-hollows. Each tailpiece has its own sound, and I would definitely want to investigate all of this before drilling holes in a guitar like this.

But on balance, I doubt very seriously that I would drill holes in a pristine example of a fine custom shop guitar like this. It costs net money to make the change, and it will, in my opinion, almost certainly reduce the value of the guitar, possibly significantly. You also don't know if you'll like the change, and once you've drilled the holes for the stop-tailpiece, it will be very hard to go back.

Instead, I would try to find an example with the stop tailpiece to try out. If I really liked it better, I'd try to either work out a trade or sell the Bigsby version and just buy what I want outright. That way, no guitars get modified.

I do wish manufacturers would start using something like the Vibramate mounting plates for Bigsby tailpieces - there's a Les Paul version for a B5 vibrato here - http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=244117. This avoids the problems with having to plug holes if you want to remove the Bigsby.

YMMV, but you did ask.

[Walter Killam]

Hi Brint,

now that you mention it it does look like a conversion, I just grabbed the first image off of google images, here's one that looks original:


edited to add - by original I mean not converted from a bigsby!

[Roger Rettig]

That looks like a new one. When I bought mine I could have chosen it without the Bigsby and I could have had black. This is the colour most associated with the 355s, though. The originals had a more faded look (even when new).

I'm still on the fence with this. I happen to have recently acquired a Gibson Howard Roberts Fusion (I don't have it here yet - it belonged to my late and much missed friend, Micky Borer from the old Cliff Bennett band - and it'll reach me sometime soon from the UK) which may very well prove to be a similar guitar to the 355 - sonically, anyway. If I like it then perhaps the 355 will keep its Bigsby.

[Dave Hopping]

Rog,if you like .009's on your Tele,maybe.0095s would give just enough extra pull on that Gibson scale length to please both your fingers and the Bigsby.

[Barry Blackwood]

Roger, what kind of tailpiece does the HR Fusion have? There appears to be more than one type available.

[Roger Rettig]

This isn't my guitar but mine's identical to this one. Mine's sunburst, too.

[William Lake]

Roger you might consider making a deal with the luthier to do the job for you and keep the bigsby as payment.

[Roger Rettig]

A possibility, William; they're more costly than I would have thought!

http://www.themusiczoo.com/cgi-bin/comm ... 4AodWSkAzA

[Chris Reesor]

Roger, a set of 10's on the Gibson scale should be very close to the same tension as 9's on the Tele.
As for the remove Bigsby / add stop tailpiece project, adding the stop tailpiece is quite simple and quick for a competent luthier, but making those screw holes disappear isn't. Look at those dark spots on the face of the guitar in Walter Killam's post.
I think I'm with Dave M. on this one; either play it as is or trade for another axe without the Bigsby.
I'd be interested to hear your impression of the HR Fusion vs. 355 when you've had a chance to play both.

Cheers, Chris

[Roger Rettig]

Yes, Chris; I'm looking forward to getting it.

We lost Micky a couple of years ago - a shock to many UK guitar players as he'd quietly influenced lots of us in those early days. Even Albert Lee credited Micky with inspiring him to work on playing with a flat-pick and fingers. Micky and I spent many happy hours arguing about how various solos were played on US recordings and we analysed Cliff Gallup, James Burton and Scotty Moore and their techniques.

Anyway, his daughter offered to sell me his HRF and I accepted, thinking it'd be nice to have one of his guitars. Ordinarily I wouldn't have even thought of getting one but this is different...

I'm slowly leaning towards Dave M's view as well - only I'd think that I'd be keeping it. Maybe the HRF will do everything I'd need.

[Roger Rettig]

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... icky+borer

Read more about Micky here. I'm proud to own one of his favourite guitars...