Sigler pedal

Jack Wilson · Post by **Jack Wilson** » 10 Mar 2013 7:06 pm

For those who missed the Texas show, Mike Sigler demostrated his invention. A 5th pedal on his single ten E9th that makes the tuning a C6th. The 5th pedal raises strings 5,6,7 a half step and lowers the 9th string a whole step. He used the standard E9th knee levers to make changes while holding down the 5th pedal. The 4th pedal was the Franklin pedal which he also used to make changes while holding down the 5th pedal. Great job Mike, I'll be putting another pedal on my guitar.

Dickie Whitley · Post by **Dickie Whitley** » 10 Mar 2013 7:14 pm

Jack Wilson · Post by **Jack Wilson** » 10 Mar 2013 7:29 pm

Other than not having the very big low string, I did not notice a big difference in the C6th songs he played, but it was not compared side by side with a double 10. He said he developed the pedal so he could fly with a light weight guitar and still do some C6th stuff if the job needed it.

Dickie Whitley · Post by **Dickie Whitley** » 10 Mar 2013 7:36 pm

Jack Wilson · Post by **Jack Wilson** » 10 Mar 2013 7:40 pm

I know what your talking about. I only have single 10s it sound like something I can use. Maybe some other people who heard him play will chime in.

Dickie Whitley · Post by **Dickie Whitley** » 10 Mar 2013 7:50 pm

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 10 Mar 2013 8:18 pm

you get E, C, A, G, E, C, and if you kick the PF pedal in you get the 8th string A.

But if you combine the Franklin Pedal with this pedal, you screw up the C6th notes on the 5th & 6th strings (unless you have a push/pull).

It looks interesting though.

Assuming the knee levers are the 4 "standard" levers and not specifying placement of the levers.

[tab]
1 2 3 4 5 KL1 KL2 KL3 KL4
F#
D#......................................D/C#
G#........A
E............F#.............D#.....F
B....C#......C#...A...C........................Bb
G#........A.......F#..A
F#....................G
E...........................D#.....F
D.....................C..................C#
B....C#...........A............................Bb
[/tab]

Again, this setup is assumed based on the info Dickie gave us. It would be great to hear more from Mike on this.

Dickie Whitley · Post by **Dickie Whitley** » 11 Mar 2013 5:35 am

Jim Pitman · Post by **Jim Pitman** » 11 Mar 2013 9:43 am

Does it have pedals 5 through 8 working on the traditional C6 changes?
There's yet another concept for a universal tuning. However, I can't see using two feet at once on a regular basis. A locking lever would be better. It wouldn't even need to be knee actuated.
The one slightly valid argument for having a double neck over a single 12 E9/B6 is that B6 is voiced lower and thus sounds different. 12 strings vs 10 is more tension also - cab drop etc. This would address that.
I'll stick with my E9/B6 12 string though. I'd miss the two lower strings in the E9 mode especially, and I often play both modes during the course of one song whereby a lock is impractical. I could see how this would be real attractive to you double neckers though.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 11 Mar 2013 11:21 am

Does it have pedals 5 through 8 working on the traditional C6 changes?

Original post states it is a single 10, and mentions a 5th pedal, but not any more than that, so I will assume it is only an S10 with 5 pedals.

I could see how this would be real attractive to you double neckers though.

I am a "double necker", and it really has no appeal to me as a replacement for the C6th neck. Until Mike can elaborate on his tuning, I don't see how that pedal can be a replacement for a full C6th tuning. A Universal 12 would be a better way to go if you want a full blown 6th neck. I do see some similarities to a C6th tuning on a D10 though.

Using the E to F lever, you kind of get the changes that are on pedal 6 of a standard C6th tuning, albeit raising both E string to F instead of the top E string to F and the lower E string to D# as on a standard C6th. And the E to D# lever gives you the D# that you would get on the lower E string, but also gives you the D# on the high E. Having the E's do different things on pedal 6 on a C6th neck, is what makes that pedal so cool and useful. If I was to use Mike's pedal 5, I would MAYBE think of changing my E string levers to have one raise string 4 to F and lower 8 to D#, and the other do the opposite by lowering 4 and raising 8. That gives you both the pedal 6 changes as well as the "reverse pedal 6" changes that many have on their C6th neck.

I don't see a way to get the changes on pedal 5 of a C6th tuning. The G note on the 7th string in this tuning would have to lower to F#, which can be done by letting off Mike's pedal 5, but you then lose the needed notes that are on strings 5 & 6, and don't have any of the C6 pedal 5 changes that are on the low strings of a C6th tuning.

Those are the 2 obvious "killers" for me. But I don't believe Mike is trying to make this pedal a substitute for a separate C6 neck. It does have possibilities for a non-pedal C6th though. A good choice for an E9th pedal steel player who also carries a lap steel tuned to C6th. You can now get both on one guitar.

The Bb lever would give you the C to B lever on the C6. Of course you would either have to tune it to get back to the C note, which may make the Bb out of tune on the E9th side, or add some kind of compensator or split.

I would still like to hear Mike's take on that pedal. Mike is a great player.

Jack Wilson · Post by **Jack Wilson** » 11 Mar 2013 1:58 pm

Only Mike can answer all these questions. but to answer one, there was only 5 pedals on his guitar.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 11 Mar 2013 5:18 pm

I know Mike is a member here, I wonder if he will see this and chime in.

Allen Peterson · Post by **Allen Peterson** » 11 Mar 2013 5:50 pm

The way he explained it to me on Saturday afternoon is that his 5th pedal addition is not a replacement for the C6 neck. Mike says he loves the C6 sound but can't justify carrying an extra neck when it is only used once or twice a gig.

His 5th pedal offers enough of the C6 sound for him to get through a song or two, without having to have the full C6 setup. He admitted he did not have the bottom of the lower strings on the C6 neck.

I heard it up close and personal, just me and him, and it sounded like C6 to me. He wasn't using the 9th string when he demonstrated the sound for me. He had just installed the new rod and it wasn't lowering the string far enough. So the sound he was getting was mainly with just strings 5, 6, 7, 8, and 10, along with his knee levers. Pretty amazing!

Allen Peterson

pdl20 · Post by **pdl20** » 11 Mar 2013 6:55 pm

interesting,im working up E 9th stuff on the C 6th neck, using mostly the first 5 strings.d e c a g.Will be putting togather a short DVD soon to show how to do some of this .

Tony Dingus · Post by **Tony Dingus** » 12 Mar 2013 8:04 am

I tuned my E9 like Mike's pedal and played around with it. I think I'll add another pedal for this change. I don't play enough C6 to carry a D10 either.

Tony

Jim Pitman · Post by **Jim Pitman** » 12 Mar 2013 8:52 am

Check this out. A maker in the Netherlands, Devis, is promoting a 10 string universal concept.

http://www.pedalpro.co.uk/folderIndex/f ... DEVIS.html

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 12 Mar 2013 9:01 am

I think to me the standard E9 offers enough 6th flavors for a few songs in the set unless one of them is Hold It.
I play a U12 E9/B6 tuning but very often I`ll play the swing tunes in E9 mode, too.

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 12 Mar 2013 9:31 am

I agree with Olli. I've been working on a "C6 on E9" tutorial. It shows the 7 pockets of notes on E9th at different fret positions and with different pedal combos that I use to get soem basic and some advanced C6 sounds. I'll post this over the next week.

Mike Sigler has some really great ideas! One that he showed me was retuning the E9th low B string WAY DOWN and bringing it back up with a pedal and using it as a base drone. It was similar but more useful that what was used on "Set 'Em Up Joe".

Greg

Dick Sexton · Post by **Dick Sexton** » 12 Mar 2013 9:35 am

Quote: "I tuned my E9 like Mike's pedal and played around with it."

Great Idea... I would like to try it be for I make the decision to modify my steel. Perfect solution. Tune my back up steel to the Sigler Pedal tuning and try it.

At times I'm just slow on the uptake. Got to try it.

Mike Sigler · Post by **Mike Sigler** » 13 Mar 2013 8:38 pm

Guys, This is just a idea i had to keep from carring around a C6th neck on a plain or other wise, it will in NO way take the place of a full C6th neck, But it come close enough for me to cover the road artist i need to back.... it is very simple, and the guys wanting to carry just the E9th neck around has a little more option then just plain ole E9th.. I have tryed it and it works great with the E to Eb lever to make the 7h chords, and also works well with the E to F change... i am still working out the birth pains, but so far, it is really cool! here is what i have done... Raise strings 567 all half tone and drop the 9th string (D) string a hole tone to (C) it becomes a C6th tunning from 4th string to 9th string, Now just use the E to Eb lever for the 7th chords and then try using E to F lever.. works pretty well!

Mike

pdl20 · Post by **pdl20** » 14 Mar 2013 3:38 pm

Mike ,looks like a great idea.,ive got an extra floor that i use to raise 1 and 2 so would work in the lower strings on my little single 10 i have . well done my friend. Rudy

Mike Sigler · Post by **Mike Sigler** » 14 Mar 2013 6:31 pm

Thanks Rudy, it is still in the birth stage, but i have a few more idea's for it... it was so good to see you.... please contact me if your up this way!

Mule Ferguson · Post by **Mule Ferguson** » 15 Mar 2013 5:03 pm

http://www.remingtonsteelguitars.com/A6.html

Mule

Mike Sigler · Post by **Mike Sigler** » 15 Mar 2013 6:23 pm

good idea, but not the same as what im doing, but a good idea.... there are so many things you can do on the E9th neck, i just love it !

Karen Sarkisian · Post by **Karen Sarkisian** » 20 Mar 2013 5:55 am

Mike, what was the other pedal you had on that guitar for the Mooney type licks ? thanks

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Sigler pedal

Sigler pedal

Sigler pedal

Sigler pedal

Sigler pedal

mmmmmmmmm

Tony Dingus

c6th/e9th