E13 question

Gary Mortensen · Post by **Gary Mortensen** » 24 Jan 2013 10:07 am

I've gotten frustrated with the E13 tuning which uses a G# on the first string - the sound of the string is weak compared to the others and I'm using the heaviest string I can that will take the tension. So, I'm thinking about migrating to one of the E13 tunings with an E on the first string.
I've looked in Andy Volk's fine book for examples and the E13 listed for both Cindy C and Herb R features a C# second string and a B# third string. Is that right? I figured it was a typo at first and that a B natural was intended, until I saw the B# repeated for both players.
Whaddaya think?

Gary

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 24 Jan 2013 10:15 am

That would be a typo if it was B#.

Vance Terry's E13 is chock full of possibilities:

E
C#
B
G#
F#
D
B
G#

Gary Mortensen · Post by **Gary Mortensen** » 24 Jan 2013 10:39 am

Thanks, Mike - I'm going to dig through my string sets and see if I can't come up with the needed gauges.
Gary

Jerome Hawkes · Post by **Jerome Hawkes** » 24 Jan 2013 10:52 am

i've found some guitars take the high G# fine and some dont. ie, short scale works ok - long scale, not so great.

imo, that high E tuning is essential for the old school early nashville sound like Hank Williams, etc - but outside of that i wouldnt choose it. it just so happens around here in NC, if you show up with a steel, you are obligated to play HW tunes, so i have to keep one on a D-8 neck just for that. (its a very brilliant sounding tuning that cuts thru the mix for sure)

Gary Mortensen · Post by **Gary Mortensen** » 24 Jan 2013 11:12 am

Hi, Jerome -
My steel is a long scale - I suppose that's why I bust the heavier strings.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 24 Jan 2013 11:26 am

On some guitars, the high G# sounds richer as the 2nd string. I sometimes string up with F# as the first string and G# as the second, sacrificing the low B:

D E G# B C# E G# F#

It's good for fast country licks, using the same concept as the E9th pedal steel. The G# sounds fatter because it's not at the edge of the pickup.

Gary Mortensen · Post by **Gary Mortensen** » 24 Jan 2013 12:02 pm

<<<The G# sounds fatter because it's not at the edge of the pickup.>>>
I didn't know that, b0b, very interesting!
Gary
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Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 24 Jan 2013 1:22 pm

...always been a question of mine too.

In theory, it would seem (on a pole pickup) that if one put more windings on the first position magnet and integrated it into the major windings it would solve the thin sound of the G# first position string.

Is this a possible answer?

Stephen Cowell · Post by **Stephen Cowell** » 24 Jan 2013 6:13 pm

Rick Collins wrote:...always been a question of mine too.

In theory, it would seem (on a pole pickup) that if one put more windings on the first position magnet and integrated it into the major windings it would solve the thin sound of the G# first position string.

Is this a possible answer?

Perhaps this is the thinking behind the trapezoidal pickup? The windings are closer together at the first string and more spaced apart at the last string.

I'm not seeing an easy way to put more windings on one polepiece than another... all polepieces get the same number of windings in a normal pickup.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 25 Jan 2013 6:32 am

Regardless of how many windings are underneath the string, when your string gauge is .011, it's going to sound thin and whiny with a heavy bar on it. Personally, I can't stand the sound of a high G#, unless it's on a pedal steel, and even then, only in the hands of certain players.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 25 Jan 2013 8:37 am

Have you tried a .0115 gauge?

Mike and I disagree on this. I think that a high G# is essential for Don Helms / Little Roy Wiggins styles. It's the forerunner of the country pedal steel sound.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 25 Jan 2013 8:59 am

b0b wrote:Have you tried a .0115 gauge?

Mike and I disagree on this. I think that a high G# is essential for Don Helms / Little Roy Wiggins styles. It's the forerunner of the country pedal steel sound.

It is, b0b, but it's not a sound that I'm in love with. I prefer C6 for that--same intervals, just a 3rd lower.

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 25 Jan 2013 12:31 pm

I don't like the thin sound of a G#.
All of the first strings on my non-pedal guitars are E.

Gary Mortensen · Post by **Gary Mortensen** » 30 Jan 2013 8:00 pm

What I've finally done is go to a C13, down a major third from where I had been with the E13. The first string sounds mo' betta...

Gary

Thiel Hatt · Post by **Thiel Hatt** » 31 Jan 2013 6:21 am

My E13th is based on the E9th I have on my pedal steel. I have tried several different versions but have settled on this one as my favorite. High end to low = F#,D#,G#,E,C#,B,G#,E,D . Yes, it is a 9 string.It's a 24 inch scale. On a triple neck guitar along with C6th and A6th

Joseph Barcus · Post by **Joseph Barcus** » 31 Jan 2013 6:52 am

I like the F# on top dont think I would like the G# there at all

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 31 Jan 2013 11:38 pm

Mike Neer wrote:
b0b wrote:Have you tried a .0115 gauge?

Mike and I disagree on this. I think that a high G# is essential for Don Helms / Little Roy Wiggins styles. It's the forerunner of the country pedal steel sound.
It is, b0b, but it's not a sound that I'm in love with. I prefer C6 for that--same intervals, just a 3rd lower.

Another possibility is to split the middle with a D6. Somebody I'm acquainted with has done this and is getting very good results.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 1 Feb 2013 8:39 am

I played a Hank Williams Tribute show once with a 6-string D6th: D F# A B D F#. It was high enough for the Don Helms parts and low enough for the Jerry Byrd parts. Only a steel player could hear the difference. Of course, it didn't have the midrange 7th of a real 13th tuning, but it could have that on a 8-string.

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 1 Feb 2013 8:53 am

Rick Collins wrote:...always been a question of mine too.

In theory, it would seem (on a pole pickup) that if one put more windings on the first position magnet and integrated it into the major windings it would solve the thin sound of the G# first position string.

Is this a possible answer?

You can accomplish the same thing by using a longer magnet, or a fatter one, or a closer magnet, or an alnico 5 in place of alnico 2, for examples.

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 1 Feb 2013 2:18 pm

b0b wrote:I played a Hank Williams Tribute show once with a 6-string D6th: D F# A B D F#. It was high enough for the Don Helms parts and low enough for the Jerry Byrd parts. Only a steel player could hear the difference. Of course, it didn't have the midrange 7th of a real 13th tuning, but it could have that on a 8-string.

My experience of the D6 from the audience is (although the Desert Rose guitar may contribute to this) that it has both the brightness of the E6 and the richness of the C6. I would say that it is a very versatile sound.

Todd Weger · Post by **Todd Weger** » 2 Feb 2013 12:40 pm

b0b wrote:On some guitars, the high G# sounds richer as the 2nd string. I sometimes string up with F# as the first string and G# as the second, sacrificing the low B:

D E G# B C# E G# F#

It's good for fast country licks, using the same concept as the E9th pedal steel. The G# sounds fatter because it's not at the edge of the pickup.

Oooo... I like this idea. May just have to try this on one of my Stringmaster E necks.

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 2 Feb 2013 3:39 pm

This is a very popular way to go with C6 players as well. I use it to very good effect. It also gives you some chordal possibilities in C6. You get a 3 sting combination E-G-A on frets 1 and 12. And with the ii note on the 1st string you also get E-G-(b)-A on frets 7 and 19. I like the combination a lot.