Vince Gill has a comment about the devaluation of music

Mat Rhodes · Post by **Mat Rhodes** » 30 Jun 2012 3:16 pm

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... 13&start=0

Douglas Schuch · Post by **Douglas Schuch** » 30 Jun 2012 4:21 pm

There is, of course, another side to this. In 1938 Benny Goodman played Carnegie Hall: the top performer at the top venue in America for the day. Cost was $2.75 for a ticket (inflation calculator says that's about $42 in today's money). Average ticket prices for some big name country stars today:

Kenny Chesney $79
Taylor Swift $72
Alison Krauss and Union Station $53

Ticket Price for Vince Gill in Oct in Minneapolis: $50-60. In Chatauqua, NY in Aug: $101 - 139 from a scalper.

Now, Vince Gill is not at the same level in popularity that Benny Goodman was in 1938. Far from it. Top performers today get over $100 average ticket prices.

So, in effect, the easy money of not touring, just cranking out records may have faded a bit. Well, there is the old-fashioned way of bringing the music to the fans: hit the road and tour. That, if anything, is paying more than ever.

Cheers,

Doug

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 30 Jun 2012 4:33 pm

Douglas, you are profoundly correct. Good observation.

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 1 Jul 2012 1:31 pm

So, in effect, the easy money of not touring, just cranking out records may have faded a bit. Well, there is the old-fashioned way of bringing the music to the fans: hit the road and tour. That, if anything, is paying more than ever.

Doug, you have a valid point, on one hand, when you are talking about the people playing on the "upper levels", but, as an example, one of the bands I play with signed some paperwork and we ended up having to go out on a van tour for a week of one-nighters. La - San Jose - Sacramento - Reno - Portland - Seattle - Couer d'Alene - Boise, load-in at 9, go on around midnight, back to the motel at 2am back in the van at 8am drive to the next venue - load in at 9... No problem when you're 25, but when you're over 60 ... There's a reason why old guys don't do it like that.

Then, for myself, there's the music that can't be toured, easily. Back in the 70's, when I was in school, I knew composers that supplemented their income with record sales. A composer might spend their life building up a portfolio of compositions and recordings and perhaps get a little financial return for all of the work and expense.

I recently got some attention when one of my compositions was used in the Hunger Games movie, that included a lo-ball take-it-or-leave-it buy out, that helped pay the bills that month, and I've gotten more attention in the last few months than I've gotten over the past 40 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwZp336T ... re=related

I noticed that it's up on Youtube and there's been a lot of hits, and so, out of curiosity, I read what some of the comments are....one of which, someone says "how do I get an MP3 of this?" My 1st thought was, well you click on the iTunes link and you can get one for 99 cents, but no, the next comment was how they can Google Youtube to mp3 and get a link where they can get it for free.

Now, granted, I'm a composer of (un-popular) music and I do it for the love of it, I've spent the majority of my life learning my craft and I would do it again, in an instant, and the thousands of dollars I spent for my studio could be compared to somebody else buying a Porsche. I am also reminded that people pay for their pleasures. $5 for a latte, $2 or $3 for an ice cream cone, that lasts how long, how much for a movie ... and then there's the pleasure of listening to music.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 1 Jul 2012 3:43 pm

Chas, you might could get a gig at the Olympics...

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 1 Jul 2012 4:52 pm

Jim Cohen wrote:Chas, you might could get a gig at the Olympics...

Priceless!

(so to speak)

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 1 Jul 2012 5:23 pm

Jim, touche', you got me.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18652088

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 1 Jul 2012 5:42 pm

I didn't want you to feel left out, Chas. Sooner or later I get everybody; it's a form of sport, you see...

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 3 Jul 2012 12:11 pm

'i got you, babe!'...sonny and cher

i tend to sympathize with vince, who's art is gold to me.
and my friends and i have worked low level gigs for close to the same pay for 40 years while new car prices have climbed from $4000 to $40,000 ...and they're uglier.

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 4 Jul 2012 7:12 pm

Vince is probably a victim of not dying young.Stick around long enough and your hits become your 401K.If you had enough of them,you can go out and play them (at Branson? Vegas?) for those who knew you when,plus a few younger folks who have better than average taste.For the few who did that,it's a pretty good living,but a pop artist's influence on the public usually ends right about the same age that lawyers start thinking about getting into politics.Vince undoubtedly has some excellent music yet to write and record,but the No.1s probably lie more in the past than the future,and the awards will likely be more Lifetime Achievement than Best New Talent.

D'ya think he might try for some publicity by becoming The Artist Formerly Known as Vince?

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 4 Jul 2012 7:24 pm

I don't buy vocal music much, but Vince Gill is one of the few singers in my CD collection. I bought the These Days boxed set, a greatest hits collection and a couple of others. His music is some of the best, well worth the price of a hard CD.

I don't have the fart app. I'm sure that my own farts are better than any that come out of a "smart phone".

Bill Dobkins · Post by **Bill Dobkins** » 4 Jul 2012 10:03 pm

Vince to me is what today's country music should be.

LJ Eiffert · Post by **LJ Eiffert** » 6 Jul 2012 4:11 pm

Vince and all these artists had power and let it go to the big heads who ran them anyway.Such Artist like Ricky Skaggs,Clint Black,Mark Wills,Randy Travis,Billy Dean,Tracy Lawrence,Lacy J.Dalton,Holly Dunn,Suzy Bogguss,Michelle Wright,Chely Wright,Lee Ann Womack,Kentucky Headhunters,Confederate Railroad,Lonestar,Diamond Rio,Joe Diffie,Kathy Mattea,Mickey Gilley,Anne Murray,Gary Morris,Steve Wariner,Cris Hellman,Tanya Tucker,Michael Martin Murphy and so many more.

I bet " Reba " is happy " Garth "!

Uncle = Leo J.Eiffert,Jr.

Mickey Adams · Post by **Mickey Adams** » 7 Jul 2012 5:02 am

I can get fart noises on my phone????....COOL!

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 8 Jul 2012 9:14 am

leo..your post doesn't make sense.

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 8 Jul 2012 9:17 pm

leo..your post doesn't make sense.

Don't that make no sense "what-so-never".

>>??<<

Sho-Nuff Uncle Mike says "Yep-Sure"

.

LJ Eiffert · Post by **LJ Eiffert** » 9 Jul 2012 11:52 am

Nothing makes sense to no one who don't know how this music business works.It's ashame that the same people who are crying about the change to how they got dropped is the ones who made the change in the first place.Old dogs and cats can't fit the new Air Waves anymore because to many young people who are running them.Just keep Steeling the Steel licks and the ones who can't will understand it makes no sense.That's my point about all of this statement of Vince words.He's still in the big game of the music business.This whole Government of music notes don't make sense nor we the people for the people and we call that Us United! Happy Birthday......

Uncle = Leo J.Eiffert,Jr. PS: Let's have a jam Session....

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 9 Jul 2012 3:10 pm

Thanks, that cleared it up …..

Darrell Criswell · Post by **Darrell Criswell** » 9 Jul 2012 8:58 pm

I think our society has very pathetic values. What does money have to do with art?

My favorite musicians have been people who had a hard time making a living in music.

Perhaps the greatest musician of all time, JS Bach, was not famous in his day as a composer, and just lived an average life as a music teacher and performer/composer for a church.

I have heard Vince Gill play live and he is good, but not necessarily better than people who just play in night clubs and have never cut a record.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 9 Jul 2012 10:14 pm

Wow Barry, it's getting clearer as the thread goes on here, isn't it?

I have seen Vince Gill play live and he is good, and in my opinion he's better than just about anyone I have seen live in nightclubs that have never cut records, along with many of the people I've seen in nightclubs whom have cut records.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 9 Jul 2012 10:14 pm

Darrell Criswell wrote: I have heard Vince Gill play live and he is good, but not necessarily better than people who just play in night clubs and have never cut a record.

Darrell, well I guess you've seen him live, which I haven't, and formed your own opinion, but after watching this video, man, I don't know of many unknown night club players who are as talented as this, in writing, singing and playing guitar.

http://youtu.be/G3SavqJdVjk

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 9 Jul 2012 10:59 pm

Vince Gill is a world talent. Far above any average bar musician. Ridiculous statement.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 10 Jul 2012 3:57 am

Well, Kevin, to be fair, he didn't say "average" bar picker but, even so, it's pretty hard to imagine anyone as good as this who hasn't been discovered yet -- but I suppose it is possible.

Darrell Criswell · Post by **Darrell Criswell** » 10 Jul 2012 5:11 am

I didn't say Vince wasn't good or great or compare him to some average musician and I was just referring to my subjective impression of his talents compared to others I have heard, and most of the people who I liked also had a history of some commercial success. I really enjoyed him when I heard him and loved the coal mining songs he sang, but he wasn't an order magnitude better than some other people who I have heard who haven't achieved commercial status. That doesn't lessen his talents or prove the people I liked were good, it just my impression, however:

The development of fame wealth, and celebrity status doesn't necessarily correlate with talent or intelligence. Although many pop singers may be very talented, many are not considered such by people with a lot of musical education. If you think what sells is indicative of great musicianship just go the current or past country charts.

The point I was trying to make is we shouldn't correlate making money with artistic value, they are two different things. Some people who become rich do so because of talent or intelligence, others because they just happen to be at the right place at the right time, or have a sponsor who propels them to the top.

Vince should not feel devalued musically because he is no longer making as much money as he used to make. There is and shouldn't be an entitlement because of previous commercial success to having heaps of money given to you in the future. Commercial success is not the indicator of artistic talent and comparing the value of his songs to a "fart app" is just ridiculous, they aren't comparable, they are two different things. Music doesn't have to have financial value or popular recognition to be of value.

History is full of people whose talents aren't recognized until well after their death, and certainly many people are never recognized either in life or after their death. The steel guitar players who I like most are considered good, but aren't as successful as Paul Franklin or others, and some not all that successful commercially. And this certainly isn't limited to music, there are numerous examples from history, art, literature etc. I remember well an article I read in the New York Times 30 years ago about the art found on the walls of caves in France made about 30,000 years ago, it said something like: art fit for the most discriminating connoisseur.