Bar Position Over Fretboard

[Scott D. Smith]

I've noticed I have to place the tone bar on the line closest to the next fret to be in tune. Shouldn't the proper position of the tone bar be on the lines of the desired fret to be played?

[Tucker Jackson]

...Shouldn't the proper position of the tone bar be between the two lines of the desired fret to be played?

The bar should be directly over the fret line on the fret board, not between the the frets.

Hope that solves your problem.

[chris ivey]

scott..the 'line' is where you want to be. the open position is the '0' fret. (E on an E9 tuning)...making the 12th fret line the octave position (E again). fret markers are set right below the actual fret line.

[Jim Cohen]

No, you're doing it right: on the line (i.e., over the fret marker line). If you think about it, fret "0" is the nut of the guitar and that is the "line" for the open string. So it would make sense that, for the 1st fret, you need to be over the next line (which is the borderline between frets 1 and 2). You might be confused if you are a guitarist who is accustomed to putting your finger between two frets on a guitar. But in fact, when you do that on a guitar, because you are actually pressing down on the string against the fretboard, as far as the string knows the contact point is the fret ("line") in front of your finger (toward the bridge), not where your finger actually is contacting the string. Make sense? Or did I misunderstand your question entirely? In which case... nevermind.

p.s. If my reply seems convoluted, read the two above me; they said the same thing much more simply and economically!

[Scott D. Smith]

delete

[Clete Ritta]

Play on the fretline no pedals, and use your ear with the pedals.

Clete

[Jim Cohen]

Scott, don't worry; we've all asked lots of so-called 'silly' questions along the way (and probably still will). Or maybe we didn't ask them but wished there was a safe place to do so. That's the great thing about the Forum.

[chris ivey]

i'm feeling a little convoluted now.

[Clete Ritta]

What I mean is, you may notice that the A and F combination for instance, doesnt always sound in tune exactly on the fretline 3 bars up.

Clete

[Roger Crawford]

Being directly over the fret line can be an issue since we sit typically at about the 15th fret. From that vantage point, the bar appers to be behind the frets on the lower end of the guitar. Place your bar directly over the 3rd fret looking at it from directly over head. Now take your seat and see where the bar appears to be from that vantage point. That relationship changes the farther up the neck you go. That's when your ears will have to tell you where the fret is.

[Clete Ritta]

Unless of course you have the B.H. Vertical Fretboard!
Sorry, it was like the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man in Ghostbusters.
The frets getting smaller doesnt help any either.

Clete

[Scott D. Smith]

delete

[Brett Day]

I play a Jackson BlackJack Custom with a 24 scale fretboard and I usually do my best to keep my bar over the fret lines.

Brett

[Brint Hannay]

Being directly over the fret line can be an issue since we sit typically at about the 15th fret. From that vantage point, the bar appers to be behind the frets on the lower end of the guitar. Place your bar directly over the 3rd fret looking at it from directly over head. Now take your seat and see where the bar appears to be from that vantage point. That relationship changes the farther up the neck you go. That's when your ears will have to tell you where the fret is.

FUN FACT: (Impress your friends! Be a hit at parties!) The phenomenon he's describing is called "parallax."

[Roger Crawford]

Right on, Brent. I used that word in Words With Friends the other night for a bunch of points!

[John Billings]

Because of parallax, one must develop one's ears. I only look at the fretboard to get close, ears do the rest. Most of the time! If you're the first guy to make a noise, you have to look at the frets to start.

[Dale Hansen]

Scott,
Don't feel bad. I started out playing in between the frets, like you described. I did it for two reasons.
First, I was dumber than a day-old-quail, and didn't know any better. Secondly, it was because that's where "in tune" was, whenever I played along with my old 45's.
I didn't learn about playing over the fret marker until I went to Jeff Newman's school, about a year later.
Truthfully, it was a mixed blessing. It turned out to be some very good ear training, because those records had a little variation from one to another, as to where the guitar sounded in tune with the song. On the adverse side, I shied away from using open strings for many years, because they would sound awful if I was "comp" fretting.(+ -)
Over the years, I used that ability to float, and adapt to getting in tune with the band, if they were either sharp, or flat of my guitar. As long as my guitar was in tune with 'itself', I was still in business, until a set break. Then,...I could get re-calibrated.

I tend think of my fret markers more like a point of reference. Certain pedal/lever combos require a bit of tweak (+ -) to be in tune. For example, I have to venture a bit #, beyond my 'target' fret, when I use the A pedal, & F lever combo.

DH

[Clete Ritta]

Thanks Dale, great points! I play along with records a lot, and they often stray from 440 one way or another, especially older recordings. Rather than retune, I just compensate with the bar.

The A+F position has also been discussed here in other threads, and is just one anomaly of the instrument:

I find that the typical A/F position on most every guitar I've ever played, needs to be played just a hair sharp in relation to the fret to blend with the rest of the chords in a given key.
JE:-)>

...It's important to aim a bit sharp of the fret when playing the A+F position. It's flat at the nut.

After the open tuning and pedals and levers are tuned, its precise bar position that counts for playing "in tune", whether its exactly over the fretline or not.

Clete

[Dale Hansen]

"After the open tuning and pedals and levers are tuned, its precise bar position that counts for playing "in tune", whether its exactly over the fretline or not".

Clete

Amen, brother Cletus!
You said it in one sentence,... While, I took up the better half of a page...

[Cal Sharp]

If you'd RTFM you'd know about this.

[George Kimery]

Here is something that you really need to be aware of and watch very closely. If you are sitting in the standard position with the 15th fret aligned with the buttons on your shirt, center the bar on the 3rd fret, then slowly slide the bar all the way down to the 24th fret. Your left wrist and arm will most likely be moving in an arc. To compensate for this, you have to bend the wrist. The wrist can be pretty straight at the 3rd fret, but by the time you slide to the 24th fret, the wrist will have to be bent at about a 20 degree angle to keep the bar parallel to the neck and in alignment with the frets. Also, when you get up past the 15th fret, your vision on the bar position will become progressively more difficult. Partly because of the closer fret spacing, but also because the bar will look centered when it is actually behind the fret and you are flat. You can check this out by connecting your tuner. Also, if the bar is slightly out of center alignment with the fret, the out of tune will be multiplied because of the short space between the bar and the changer end of the guitar. Just like a short neck on a fiddle with no frets. This is why you hear so many fiddle players playing flat. Just not much room for error when you are dealing with such a short area to work in. It always drove me nuts as to why I could not get an in tune sound way up in "Hughey Land" until I realized what my problem was by really thinking about it and noticing that my wrist had to be twisted quite a bit. Then, after checking the notes with my tuner, I realized that I was actually flat and that the least bit of the bar not being perfectly aligned with the fret made two notes played at the same time, horrible sounding. Of course, it is not all science. You still have to rely on your ears.

[John Billings]

"You still have to rely on your ears."

Yes. EARS! I don't even look that closely. Ya gotta hear when you're in tune. Doesn't have that much to do with your eyes.

[Lane Gray]

If you'd RTFM you'd know about this.

The Kama Sutra never helped MY intonation.
Just Sayin'

[Scott D. Smith]

delete

[Ransom Beers]

Amazing,not knowing where to place the bar & going to work a gig,amazing,simply amazing.