Bands with limited set lists

David Beckner · Post by **David Beckner** » 2 Jul 2011 6:33 pm

I have been suprised and somewhat taken back by the number of bands playing now days that have a limited selection of songs in the set list.. For example as of late their is a band playing a certain club on Friday and Saturday nights. Go out on Friday and hear them and then return on Saturday and the set list is reversed. meaning you get the same songs only in a different order.Make a request and it gets shrugged off..Personally I think these types of bands need to go back to the woodshed or at least add more stuff to their reproitoire.. I am proud to say that my band has around 300 songs in our books and arent stuck in the so called music rut..

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 3 Jul 2011 9:00 am

Many "bands" either don't have the rehearsal time or creative perspective to assemble a book of 300 songs, others don't want to appear "amateurish" by playing anything they haven't practiced to death...but they've got a paying gig, don't they?

This phenomenon has existed since performers - many club owners / booking agents want a select tune list in the belief that it draws more patrons and makes them more money, sort of like the mindset of the folks who program pop radio stations. I have even worked for club owners who provided a mandatory songlist and timed the sets and breaks to the minute in pursuit of the perfect scientific profit formula.

Personally I think it's all a crock, but others think otherwise and they have their reasons. So, are you a mercenary or an artist? Choose one and be happy with the consequences!

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 3 Jul 2011 9:34 am

I see a lot of Repertoire Dwarfism these days,too.My humble opinion is that it's a consequence of the severely diminished work opportunities for bands.A band that did bar gigs 300+ nights a year,most often in 5-6 night stints,usually two weeks at a time at the same place HAD to come up with new material all the time,to keep up with requests as well as keep up with the Top Forty.House bands were under even more pressure to get new stuff out fast-and right.
What would happen is bands would wing what they could,and work out more difficult material offstage during the day,then put it in the rotation that evening.Real easy to develop a huge songlist and awesome ensemble skills if you're doing it all the time,unimpeded by things like non-music day jobs.

Woodshedding? Maybe individually,privately at home,but group rehearsal takes up a lot of time and very often turns into a social gathering,with beer,burgers,wives,kids,and very little work done.
I can't fault the guys who say "we have families and real jobs".They have to feed those families and pay those mortgages,and that won't get done on a musicians work schedule,because there's almost no work to schedule.But it also means an atrophied songlist and weak,infrequent,poorly paid performance.

I'd bet that Dave's band has at least a couple of former full-timers,who learned ensemble efficiency and can deliver the goods.Not every band has that good fortune.

Steve Alcott · Post by **Steve Alcott** » 3 Jul 2011 9:41 am

In my regular band, the singer brings in a chart and we play it on the gig. If there are notes to read, the charts go out ahead of time and everyone is expected to be ready to play on the gig.

S.M. Johnson · Post by **S.M. Johnson** » 3 Jul 2011 11:22 am

Any so-called group that can't put together a song list of a couple hundred tunes with a wide variety of tempo's, both old country, new country, some light rock or whatever the crowd of the night might want to hear..... in the opinion of many, is a group not ready for public exposure.

It's a lame excuse that they don't have enough rehersal time. In truth, it's a dream for someone however either the basic talent or experience is seriously lacking.

It's hard to believe so many of these short-time players are being expected to play really sophisticated arrangements that they can't sit down and play the majority of them on the fly.

Some claim to be playing paying gigs with only three weeks of playing time on the steel. I wonder if this has any basis for so many club owners not wanting steels in their place of business. Just a tho't.

Clyde Mattocks · Post by **Clyde Mattocks** » 3 Jul 2011 11:26 am

Most of the decent players around here are playing in three or four bands with on call subs who know most of the standard fare. In the 70's and 80's when there was plenty of work, even sit down work for a week, my band had an enormous repertoire. Now the venues and organized bands come and go so fast, there's not time to build up a large body of songs they can reel off. You just go when you're called and grab it on the fly.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 3 Jul 2011 1:08 pm

Every situation is different. Not all bands are variety or cover bands. Some play mostly or even only their own original songs. Some specialize in one or two particular styles. Not all bands play country music of any sort - or soft rock, hard rock, alt-rock, southern rock, folk rock, bluegrass, pop, jazz, blues, disco, soul, R&B, hip-hop, reggae, punk, or anything in particular that any given person out there might think is 'mandatory' for a 'legitimate' band. The people that pay money to see them may not care one whit about whether or not you think they're 'legitimate' or not.

The bottom line for a band that plays for money is simple - will enough people pay money to see them? The bottom line for a gigging musician is simple - can you cut the gigs you want to play? For any musician who wants to play out, affirmative answers to those two questions cut through all the nonsense.

Beyond that, this holier-than-thou stuff gets old pretty fast. It comes from all sides. I've heard 'original' band musicians put down 'cover' bands, and vice-versa. I've heard jazz players put down players of simpler forms of music. I've heard classical musicians put down everything but classical. I've heard blues players argue that nothing else has any 'soul'. I've had country players tell me that 'all blues sounds the same', and then play out of the same bank of 3-chord tunes in G, A, and C all night. And lots more. Gimme a break, please.

Myself, I respect any musician who plays what they play well, regardless of style or approach. All this other stuff is claptrap. My opinion, YMMV.

Clyde Mattocks · Post by **Clyde Mattocks** » 3 Jul 2011 1:24 pm

Dave makes his point perfectly (as always). Not all bands need a large body of songs. Some are strictly show bands who play, and are expected to play, the same show every night. For example the backing band of a star with a string of maybe fifteen hits. In my situation, I play in two country bands that have a fairly extensive song list (with a good bit of common stuff), a bluegrass band with a huge body of stuff, an Opry type show that moves from town to town with only about twenty five songs, and occasionally backing recording acts who will only do their original stuff. In addition I do quite a bit of work for recording studios where I may be expected to learn and deliver ten or twelve new original pieces in one day. So, just the sheer number of songs you can play does not necessarily qualify you for "legitimacy".

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 3 Jul 2011 3:27 pm

I'm pretty sure the OP was talkng about a bar band.He did say "club",and seemed to be implying that there was one band playing all night.I had the sense that he felt the band didn't have enough material for the gig,and should get more stuff down.I made the assumption that the band in question played variety country.If it was some other genre,perhaps he can come back on the thread and clarify.

Clyde and Dave Mudgett are,of course,completely right to say that there are situations where a group of musicians need not have a large repertoire of tunes from different genres.But the country bars where you're pumping it out five sets a night is a situation where you definitely do.
I've made a couple of forays into alternative-country music with bands of at least some local reputation.Their songlists were about 25 to 30 tunes,and they practiced constantly.Despite all the work they did on their material,their ensemble work was stiff,sloppy and unfocused onstage;it went over OK with the urban hipsters,but those bands (wisely,I think)chose not to compete on the country bar circuit.

Brendan Mitchell · Post by **Brendan Mitchell** » 3 Jul 2011 3:54 pm

We used to play 3 , 4 hrs a night , the only band at the pub/club/whatever .
Now the same places have a lineup of 3, 4 or more acts on for the night .
A lot of the bands playing these shows have about 10 songs in their set .

Bill Moran · Post by **Bill Moran** » 3 Jul 2011 5:17 pm

We have a local band here that has been playing the same songs sense high school in the mid 60's. Old rock and people keep coming out to hear them.

After about 45 years there pretty tight !

David Beckner · Post by **David Beckner** » 3 Jul 2011 5:53 pm

Dave Hopping
You are completely right. I am talking about bands that are the sole entertainment for the weekend, say a 3 hour set for Thursday ,Friday and Saturday. On Thursday lets say the set is starting.Working Man Blues, Luchenbach Teaxas, Dont Rock The Juke box etc..Friday night the middle set is the same as above.Saturday night it is the ending set..
Now step into my shoes for a moment and go ask the establishment owner for a gig and he tells you " I'm very seriously thinking of not having bands anymore because people arent coming out like they were"
Humm..Should I say that a band who is limited on the material is probably the reason why this person is losing patronage.
.....Please let me be very clear , I am not trying to start a pi**ing contest by writing this thread ..I am just curious to find out if this is the cause as to seasoned bands no longer getting the gigs they once were.

Bob Vantine · Post by **Bob Vantine** » 3 Jul 2011 6:55 pm

20+ yrs ago I needed to hire a sub on bass for 1 job . The "gentleman" that I hired was the bassist for a top country group from the area where the gig was at (the rest of us traveled 50+ miles )and I thought that was a double bonus $:\$ ..... WRONG !

This guys group was one of the better groups of that area.....but they played from a very limited song list & NEVER ventured from it . We played country standards and he was TERRIBLE and an attitude to boot !

Give me an average , likeable , willing picker instead of a flash with blinders on anyday , anytime , anywhere !

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 3 Jul 2011 7:17 pm

Roual Ranes · Post by **Roual Ranes** » 3 Jul 2011 7:44 pm

It could be that they only have so many tracks on their computer, as it the case with one group I know of.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 3 Jul 2011 7:46 pm

I am just curious to find out if this is the cause as to seasoned bands no longer getting the gigs they once were.

I guess this varies by location, but in many places I'm familiar with, I think the biggest problems are:

#1. Aggressive DUI enforcement that scares many patrons away from drinking out at all. In many places (certainly around here, a major university town) the primary biz model for most live music clubs is selling alcohol. If you, as a band, don't bring in a good-sized drinking crowd, they fire you and try to get a band who will. I know some club owners who are having trouble finding any band that can do this lately.

#2. A pretty tanked economy. Most people aren't throwing money around the way they were 10-20 years ago.

#3. Cultural changes moving away from classic popular music styles (e.g., country, blues, and rock and roll based) and favoring hip-hop, techno, karaoke, and DJs. That is certainly true in this big university town, and many others. College students are a big part of the wave of the future.

#4. The ability to do a lot of #3 at home using large-screen TVs and home-theatre sound systems. Why deal with annoying stuff at clubs? The booze is a lot cheaper at the state liquor store, and practically any of these entertainment formats can be done at home with friends.

In my world, most club bands work a stylistic and cultural niche. If a band moves very far away from that niche, many fans feel betrayed. When I was playing full-time, I was in a different band for every style I was working in - one blues, one traditional country/bluegrass, one roots-rock, one rockabilly, one folk-rock/alt-country, sometimes a jazz trio, whatever. When I showed up with a steel guitar to the rockabilly gig, it was clear that it would not be accepted. People came up to the lead singer and asked, with a very dejected look, "Are you gonna move to country music now?" - of course, not exactly getting that we were already playing a lot of hardcore honkytonk country music. Many fans wanted to hear the same stuff every night - many times that band was expected to play "Ring of Fire" more than once - there was a whole schtick around certain tunes or groups of tunes. A lot of peoples' social lives are based on adherence to certain music and fashion styles. In this world, bands need to feed that ethos. It's party time.

When in Rome. If people want a live jukebox, that can be accommodated. If people want slavish adherence to a particular ethos, so can that. You pays your money, you takes your choice.

But most places I'm around, it's pretty clear that the live music pie is shrinking. My take.

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 3 Jul 2011 9:23 pm

Well,we're talking again about the anemic state of the biz,as we so often do,and should.As regards Dave the OP's thesis that bad bands run the crowd off,I think there's a certain amount of truth to that,but in the actual situation he saw that prompted him to start this thread,I do wish we could know things like what that crew was paid for their weekend's work,the size of the venue,who's responsible for sound reinforcement,and the relative zealotry of DUI/Clean Air enforcement in that neighborhood.

As the saying goes,$50 a night was great money forty years ago,and it still is today.

Bill Moran · Post by **Bill Moran** » 4 Jul 2011 9:47 am

Several years ago when I was in a country band we played 2 nights a week and sometimes 3. We only added a new song if something great got on the radio. We played Mel Street, Hank Jr, George Strait and such. It didn't matter where we played we had our same old crowd. I guess they followed us from place to place.
Now the bar's and clubs are a thing of the past. The cops and DUI charges I guess. Now I play outdoor shows in the summer and partys during holidays and most of the time with diff. people. Same old songs but new faces.

mtulbert · Post by **mtulbert** » 4 Jul 2011 11:57 am

Interesting thread to say the least. We have a semi limited set list. We are always updating but still have a core set of songs that we do depending on the situation.

For us, we seldom do clubs and but more festivals and weddings. While we could remain static and not change the set list, we would become stale as well and need to change to keep our enthusiasm going.

I certainly can see how a cover band playing in the same location all the time would have to keep updating their set list.

Happy 4th to all

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 4 Jul 2011 3:05 pm

Drunken audience members are never the ideal set callers. Often they wanna hear the same old crap anyway. It's good to have a healthy number of tunes up your sleeve as a band, but you do need a polished show with boundaries. I doubt there any many bands out there with 300-song lists and a polished version of each of these tunes. I'd rather see a band be tight with limited tunes than to try to please the passing whims of every patron by doing horrendous versions of requests.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 4 Jul 2011 5:54 pm

it's best to have a couple singers in the band who have sung a hundred tunes in their life and who trust the band to get them through them one way or the other.

the modern metro scene of one band per set is ridiculous.
learn to play all night or stay home!

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 5 Jul 2011 5:48 am

Some non-connected random thoughts...

A large percentage of bands are hired, in my experience, to do a combination of two things; i.e. keep people hanging around to drink and eat, and facilitating boys meeting girls. Depending on the venue, the percentages will vary.

The most successful bar band... and, therefore, bar... brings bring in women, who in turn attract single men who single-mindedly spend their hard-earned money, most often resulting in their abject disappointment at evening's end. Some, I've heard, even learn to dance specifically for the task.

It's far more difficult for a bar-type band fronted by a woman (who's not a "star") to make it in the 4-hour-a-night world. It can be done and there's quite a few exceptions, but the girls generally can't seem to hold a crowd's attention for that long a time. There has to be a male vocal presence. Probably has to do with repertoire. Just my observation over the years.

Re Bands With Limited Repertoire:
I played a show back in the day (1972) opening for The Kinks. They were rocking on their hits, but were swilling so much beer there was a total mess onstage. A drunk Ray Davies slipped in the beer puddle and literally cold-cocked himself on one of the amps. Big crash. He was done for the night, 1/3 of the way through the show.

Well, you'd be surprised what a lame-ass bar band a big time rock group can turn into when they don't know what to freakin' do after the set list goes south.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 5 Jul 2011 5:53 am

Herb Steiner wrote: Re Bands With Limited Repertoire:
I played a show back in the day (1972) opening for The Kinks. They were rocking on their hits, but were swilling so much beer there was a total mess onstage. A drunk Ray Davies slipped in the beer puddle and literally cold-cocked himself on one of the amps. Big crash. He was done for the night, 1/3 of the way through the show.

Well, you'd be surprised what a lame-ass bar band a big time rock group can turn into when they don't know what to freakin' do after the set list goes south.

Story of the day...thanks, Herb!

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 5 Jul 2011 6:35 am

Chris L. and Chris I. both - well said!

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 5 Jul 2011 6:56 am

Good one about the Kinks,Herb.A drunk player onstage is worse than a drunk cop on duty.

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Bands with limited set lists

Bands with limited set lists

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