Fiddle & language problems...

Gianni Gori · Post by **Gianni Gori** » 20 Dec 2009 9:42 am

May I ask a silly question about fiddle, much related with my not that good english?

Are fiddle and violin exactly the same instument or are they different somehow? Should they be the same, is there a reason for the different names?

On the very first records I bought as a teenager I used to read "fiddle" in the credits and at first I had a hard time to figure out what instrument it was.
On dictionaries then I found "fiddle = violin" but, you know, dictionaries are not that much into music sometimes, and they may give too generic answers... I have always been wondering if it's just a matter of different ways to name the same instrument or if there's something more.
Even the internet was not that helpful about this, anyone knows what a fiddle is... anyone but me! LOL

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 20 Dec 2009 10:09 am

Yes, they are the same.
Maybe if you read music, you play the violin.
If you play by ear, you play the fiddle.

Gianni Gori · Post by **Gianni Gori** » 20 Dec 2009 10:12 am

Great, thank you!

Andy Jones · Post by **Andy Jones** » 20 Dec 2009 11:12 am

Gianni,If my memory serves me correctly,the difference is that the bridge on a fiddle is not as rounded,allowing the fiddler to bow two strings at once,somewhat easier than with a violin bridge.Other than that,there is no difference.I know a gent who plays with the symphony orchestra in his city and is also a champion bluegrass fiddler,using the same instrument.Corrections welcome.

Andy

Leon Grizzard · Post by **Leon Grizzard** » 20 Dec 2009 1:41 pm

Maybe it would be more accurate to say the somewhat flattened bridge enables you to change between pairs of stings easier, since both strings in any adjacent pair are on the same plane. Also, you would be more likely to find steel strings on a fiddle and gut or artificial gut on a violin, but that is not universal or anything.

Where's Howard Kalish? He'll set us straight.

Rick Campbell · Post by **Rick Campbell** » 20 Dec 2009 1:43 pm

Same instrument. It has nothing to do with reading music. Many country and bluegrass fiddle players are classical trained in the violin methodsm and read music very well. The cut of the bridge is a matter of player preference, however, you do see more of the flat cut bridges in bluegrass than classical music. It's nothing drastic, about 1mm less steep. A lot of classical players refer to their instrument as a fiddle. You often see country records with credits listed for violin. Bottom line is, there's no difference.

Fiddle/violin are used in lots of different music, classical, old time, folk, Scottish/Irish jigs, country, bluegrass, pop, etc...

Bluegrass is probably the youngest music to use fiddle, but Mr. Monroe considered fiddle as an intergral part of the music. Please don't get into the old time/bluegrass confusion. They're two different forms of music.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 20 Dec 2009 2:52 pm

Itzak Perlman calls it a fiddle.That's good enough for me. YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.

Andy Jones · Post by **Andy Jones** » 20 Dec 2009 6:16 pm

You are right,Mr.Grizzard.It doesn't matter how the bridge is shaped.A flatter bridge may make it easier to bow different pairs of strings,but you'll always be able to bow a pair,no matter how flat or round the bridge.I better stick to what I know about- a banjo.Sorry,b0b!

Andy(not a fiddler)

Jeff Evans · Post by **Jeff Evans** » 20 Dec 2009 6:55 pm

Here's a Livorno fiddle by Antonio Gragnani.

Another

And:

VIOLIN, Antonio Gragnani. Livorno, Italy, circa 1785. Of the numerous examples of this well-known maker which I have seen and heard this is the finest yet. The varnish is a lustrous, transparent golden amber, the workmanship exceptionally clean: the sound blossoms and grows under a sensitive bow arm, seeming to magnify to match perfectly the size of the room in which it is played. — http://www.williamsgengakkiviolin.com/products62.htm

Livorno has a nice violin/fiddle heritage. (I'm guessing the seafood and wine are pretty dandy, too.)

Tom Keller · Post by **Tom Keller** » 20 Dec 2009 7:52 pm

I was thinking that Rick Campbell told me,the main difference between a violinist and a fiddler is about $150.00 an hour.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 20 Dec 2009 11:55 pm

Another difference between a fiddle player and a violinist is [most] fiddle players play from the heart,Most violinist[not all I'm sure] play off of paper. A good friend of mine [bass player] had a female cousin that was a concert violinist,We talked her into sitting in with us one time,played some simple tunes,after a couple of tunes she said Sorry guys I can't do it without my music.My alltime favorite fiddle player AND violinist was the GREAT Vassar Clements and I don't think he could read music at all. He played with heart and soul. YOU BETCHA, DYK?BC.

Rick Campbell · Post by **Rick Campbell** » 21 Dec 2009 3:23 am

Charles Davidson wrote:Another difference between a fiddle player and a violinist is [most] fiddle players play from the heart,Most violinist[not all I'm sure] play off of paper. A good friend of mine [bass player] had a female cousin that was a concert violinist,We talked her into sitting in with us one time,played some simple tunes,after a couple of tunes she said Sorry guys I can't do it without my music.My alltime favorite fiddle player AND violinist was the GREAT Vassar Clements and I don't think he could read music at all. He played with heart and soul. YOU BETCHA, DYK?BC.

Vassar was a great friend of mine. He left me a double fiddle case. No Vassar didn't read music. I played guitar in his band and he played to the rhythm. He hated structured music. Each show was like a big jam session.

Most people know me as a fiddler. I can tell you first hand that playing from music is not as much fun as playing from the heart. But, to play from the heart, you have to feel something in the music. The solid timing is what does it for me. I can't get in the mood to play if the song is some kind of whacked up timing.

Gianni Gori · Post by **Gianni Gori** » 21 Dec 2009 8:40 am

Jeff Evans wrote: Livorno has a nice violin/fiddle heritage. (I'm guessing the seafood and wine are pretty dandy, too.)

Right...
Livorno it's more famous for its seafood and fish soup (called "cacciucco") and for wines than for its luthieristic history,
but it's nice to learn that we have a little of it too

Actually I didn't know, shame on me...

Johnny Thomasson · Post by **Johnny Thomasson** » 29 Dec 2009 4:18 pm

Rick Campbell wrote: The solid timing is what does it for me. I can't get in the mood to play if the song is some kind of whacked up timing.

Man, ain't that the truth!!!