MSA Millenium owners and people who have played them

[Josh Yenne]

So I have done some searches but can't really find any good thread on the Carbon Fiber Milleniums...

I LOVE the idea of these guitars... especially for the double neck... although I have not been playing long I am definitely not a bedroom player and am already gigging pretty steadily on my E9 Carter....

I put a LOT of worth into my ease of load-in, set up, load-out....
My two main guitar amps are a princeton and a two-rock Jet.. both very small amps... even if I am playing a 800 capacity room I just bring my single 12 two rock. I just bought an Evans amp that is on its way cause of the weight.. (hopefully it sounds good!)

I have played Carbon Fiber Guitars and acoustic basses and I have really liked all of them but the price was prohibitive (and I didn't need any more guitars at the time)

Questions about the MSA for you owners or people that have played them.

1. Positives and negatives? Why do/did you like it? Why dont/didn't you?
2. How does it compare to other steels for feel, tone etc.

Anything else you can tell me.... I live in california and it is hard to get my hands on many steels to try so the forum is a god-sent. I am just interested in feedback on the Carbon fiber instruments they make...

Thanks in advance!

[David Doggett]

I have a Millennium S12U that I was fortunate to buy at a used price. I didn't buy it for the carbon fiber body. I mainly bought it for the interchangeable pickup system, and the well-designed, precision mechanics. The fact that the CF body is slightly lighter is nice, but I think the whole instrument is designed for lightness, and I can't imagine the Studio Pros with wood bodies (and identical mechanics) weigh much more. Likewise, the CF body is extremely temperature stable, and that is nice. But with extreme temperature changes, the metal strings themselves are not temperature stable; so that problem is not completely eliminated. Also, the CF body will not swell or shrink with humidity changes, and has a finish that is very tough and resistant to scratches. And rough handling is never going to cause cracks in the wood grain.

As for tone, the CF Milly has a neutral or colorless tone. I mean that in a good way. It has no dominating distinctive tone - not too dark, not too bright. So it is very flexible for achieving any tone you want, with the right pickup, amp and EQ adjustments.

The only disadvantage I can think of is that it doesn't have the natural looks of a beautifully figured wood body, if that is something you want. But you can get that (with the inherent problems of wood) in a Legend or Studio Pro, with the same precision mechanics and interchangeable pickups.

[Hook Moore]

" Pros and Cons ", David covered it very good. I will add, I have a D-10 Millennium 8&8, very comfortable and adjustable. Plays very easy, light weight and sets up quickly.
I can find no "cons" .
Hook

[Josh Yenne]

thanks guys!

[Darvin Willhoite]

I have a Millennium D10, a Legend, and a Studio Pro. Soundwise, there is very little difference in any of them, and they all play great. Like David, I have always been drawn to MSA's for their precision mechanics, and for special features on the later models such as adjustable pedal rods and knee levers, and interchangeable pickups. My Studio Pro has a 24 1/4" scale which I think is available on the Legend and Millennium now, and it seems to have just a slight bit more sustain than the other two. The Millennium is 5 lbs lighter than the Legend with identical setups. I haven't weighed my Studio Pro yet.

My Millennium is a one-of-a-kind, I just happened to have a picture.

[Jim Cohen]

I have a Millenium D-10 and love it. Maybe this is a reflection of what David Doggett described as having a 'neutral or colorless tone' but I can say that this is the first guitar I have owned that I did not hate for the first 2 weeks I owned it. Every other guitar I've owned (and I've owned quite a few of many different brands) I hated until I subconsciously figured out how to get 'my sound' out of them. I think I subconsciously adjusted my attack, maybe my picking angle, force, maybe a little tweak of the amp EQ, etc. but sooner or later, I DID get my tone out of all of them. But with the Millenium, it came right out on Day 1, right out of the box. No adjustment period needed (for me).

Beyond that, I love the clean lines, clean precision mechanics, interchangeable pickups, interchangeable pedal rods, finger-screws for adjusting KL angles and pedal height and, of course, the amazing light weight so that I can fly my D-10 in the case at under 50 lbs and not get charged overweight baggage each way. YMMV, but this works great for my needs.

[Andy Zahnd]

I have a Milly M3 now for a few years. Quality and stabel is maybe the right word... To tune that steel is maybe more a "controlling" just in case... because it goes verry seldom out of tune! The sound and sustaine of it (TrueTone PU) is to die for it! I love feel of the Milly and esp. the fretboard. I strongly believe that this makes you playing way easier in tune over the 15 fret! 3 negative things(my personal ones): My guitar has a problem with the 5 string, I break them 3 times befor the G# will break! I like the Carter for my right handposition mutch better (the way the changerconstruction is build) and gives me more tonecontroll! And the last one: Even with this rolls royce guitar.... it makes me what I am... still a lousy player!
this are my 2 cents.... to make the long story short: My Milly is a supersuper guitar, esp because I know, Johnny Cox build it together... that makes it even better!

[Jeff Valentine]

I've got a millennium D10 and think it's a great overall guitar. Like everyone else is saying, the overall tone of the guitar is good, but not fantastic. One thing I can say about the MSA, it stays in tune! This guitar has been taken to Iraq in the 120 degree heat, and still stayed in tune. I'm lucky enough to get to play a Zum as well, and think it has a richer overall tone than the MSA. It all really comes down to what you're trying to sound like. If you do go with the MSA, Reece Anderson is a great guy who will stand behind his product.

[Jim Cohen]

Like everyone else is saying, the overall tone of the guitar is good, but not fantastic.

Well, with all due respect, Jeff, that's not what I'm saying, at least. I think my guitar sounds fantastic. And that's the feedback I've been getting from others who hear it including, most recently, the wife of a manufacturer of a major competitive brand who couldn't stop raving about it.

[Josh Yenne]

you guys are GREAT! Thanks.... and Darvin that thing is BEAUTIFUL!

I will always believe that 90% of the tone from a guitar comes from the hands of the player but that 10% is what keeps us searching and tweaking!

If one steel is 65 pounds and the next one is 35 pounds and still sounds 98% as good as the heavy one I will go with the lighter one all the time cause I am all about going out and playing.. so I am packing and moving these instruments all the time...

[Joe Rogers]

Well, I am going to be speaking from a different angle.....not as an owner, but as one who has been really interested in this guitar since I first heard about them. This interest started years ago with a visit to the CA (Composite Acoustics) Guitar Company here in Lafayette, LA. These acoustic guitars are made out of carbon fiber. If you have not played one, you owe it to yourself to try one out. Their early slogan was, "We are going to change the way you think about wood". From what I understand, the genius behind this guitar used to work for NASA and designed the nose cone on the space shuttle. He noticed carbon fiber had the same vibrating properties as wood and decided to build acoustic guitars from this material. By utilizing special bracing, and sound hole design and placement, he can mimic practically any brand of guitar you desire. I have heard the tonal differences in earlier prototypes, and it is astonishing. They also demonstrated the indestructible nature of the material for me by pounding a demo model on the concrete. Some of these guitars are on offshore boats exposed to salt water with no adverse effects.

The first Millenium I ever played was one of the real early models. I was disappointed at the tone. Later when Johnny Cox started building them, I took a visit to the factory to check them out. I knew there were design changes implemented from the earlier models I had played to the newer ones I played at my visit. Johnny's words to me at that time were, "The Millenium has a tone that is different, but it is really good". I found that to be a perfectly accurate statement. The tone is a little bit different from the wood guitars I was used to, but I really did like certain characteristics I heard.

The machining on this guitar is nothing short of incredible, probably the best I have ever seen. Ergonomics (placement of floor pedals and knee levers) is terrific. I love the idea of one-length pedal rods with fingertip adjustable height. Interchangeable pickups are a feature I wish could be implemented on every brand of guitar. I love the strength and light weight of carbon fiber as well as the tuning stability this material provides.

As for the tone, I have mixed feelings. The highs and mids are great, it was the lows that didn't grab my ears. Keep in mind this is a personal preference. Like Jeff mentioned above, I too was a Zum owner at the time, so I was used to hearing a certain low end growl that is really appealing. I spent a whole day at the MSA room in Dallas a year ago. I played quite a few guitars with different pickups looking for this growl, and never quite got there. Again, it is just a personal preference. But it got me to wondering if the low end difference was in the body material, the changer, or a combination of other things.

I would love to see what a carbon fiber steel guitar would sound like with a cabinet molded down here at CA Acoustics. These guys have definitely gone above and beyond the industry standard at their knowledge of working with this material. Knowing how well they can mimic vintage wood acoustic guitars has me wondering if a carbon fiber cabinet could be constructed to mimic the Sho-Bud and Emmons cabinets, or design something even better than either one. Just my thoughts...


Joe Rogers

[Sidney Malone]

The Millenium is an awesome guitar!! I agree with all the positive that's been said and after several years of playing one (SU-12) I have nothing but good to say about it.

The only thing I can add is that for me there are no distractions when playing. Every other guitar I've played has had some distractions of some sort whether it be mechanical issues, uncomfortability, unstable tuning...etc. The Millennium has no distractions to me, period. I can put my full concentration into playing.

This guitar will far outperform my capabilities....so the weak link here is me.

[steve takacs]

Andy, can you expand on your comment about how the fretboard helps you play in tune above fret 15, please? Sounds interesting. steve t

[Andy Zahnd]

For me it was always hard to play over the 15th fret in tune.... with my MSA I have never a problem to stay in tune with the band. I don't know what it is but it has to do with that 3D fretboard... you are able to see your fretmarks easier even you change your headposition... and you nail the frets easier! really hard to explain... sorry
Oh, that is maybe a bad thing on the Milly: even this fretboards are the best in the world.... but if you take care as mutch as I do to clean your steel.... that fretboard is a dust- collector

[Ron Randall]

I bought an MSA "Milly" new. It is the M3 which means it has a few refinements over the original M1.

The first time I saw one was at the St.Louis show. It was totally submerged in an aquarium, with fish swimmin' all around. When the big moment came, the guitar was pulled from the tank, the water was allowed to drain, plugged into an amp and started playing.

I am a mechanical engineer by profession. I was thrilled that someone had broken the rules. I know a fair amount about that technology, and admired the engineering and machining work everywhere on the guitar.

One can leave guitar setup out in the rain if you want to.

Interchangeable pickups. I now have 5 different ones. They are all different, but the differences are not huge.
I can adjust all the pedals and levers (8 and 5) while sitting in the playin, position. It stays in tune.

Good luck in your search.

[Junior Knight]

Here is my 2 cents...
I had 3 Msa's while I worked there..2 D-10's and a S-12. NEVER a problem with staying in tune or tone! Played like a dream and lite weight.Now this is a problem with me...I just could'nt find my sweet spot with the tone in the studio..is it the guitar or me? I think me! As far as the *Milly*..Great! Built by a fine company! otta here, Junior.

[Larry Bressington]

I have a Millennium D10, a Legend, and a Studio Pro. Soundwise, there is very little difference in any of them, and they all play great. Like David, I have always been drawn to MSA's for their precision mechanics, and for special features on the later models such as adjustable pedal rods and knee levers, and interchangeable pickups. My Studio Pro has a 24 1/4" scale which I think is available on the Legend and Millennium now, and it seems to have just a slight bit more sustain than the other two. The Millennium is 5 lbs lighter than the Legend with identical setups. I haven't weighed my Studio Pro yet.

My Millennium is a one-of-a-kind, I just happened to have a picture.

\

Kin eh brother!

[Chris Bauer]

Email sent about a black D-10 (8x8) that might be for sale if you're interested...

[Gord Cole]

...I became interested in the U12 Millennium because of the light weight after a double by-pass a year and a half ago. I love it! --Gord

[richard burton]

I played a Millenium M3 today, a D10.

What a brilliant steel

I got 'my' tone very quickly after a bit of knob tweaking on the amp.

I felt at home on it as soon as I started playing, it's a very comfortable steel to play.

[Donny Hinson]

The Millennium is a fine guitar. Light, very compact, and with a nice "feel" and tone. The body is very thin (on the order of an eighth of an inch), so the guitar's action is not as quiet as the old Classics. It also uses the slotted pullers (which most builders use now), but I see no advantage to them in this guitar, since the 2-pc. design they use already allows quick removal and replacement. (The old 3 & 4 hole pullers gave a more precise feel.)

I bought one of the first, and it's a very good guitar, equal to anything on the market. And with the (optional) titanium rods, it's probably the most stable guitar, tuning wise, ever made.

(E-mail me if you want to know the whys and wherefores of titanium pullrods.)

[Larry Bressington]

I have a Millennium D10, a Legend, and a Studio Pro. Soundwise, there is very little difference in any of them, and they all play great. Like David, I have always been drawn to MSA's for their precision mechanics, and for special features on the later models such as adjustable pedal rods and knee levers, and interchangeable pickups. My Studio Pro has a 24 1/4" scale which I think is available on the Legend and Millennium now, and it seems to have just a slight bit more sustain than the other two. The Millennium is 5 lbs lighter than the Legend with identical setups. I haven't weighed my Studio Pro yet.

My Millennium is a one-of-a-kind, I just happened to have a picture.

I never get tired of looking at your beautiful millie dave, i'll bet she was few bucks!

[Darvin Willhoite]

And worth every penny, in my humble opinion.

[David Wright]

Well, I have owned 3 Millenniums...
Tone...Great, as we all know , Tone is in the ears of the beholder, that's me.... I like it....
2. Stays in tune, I have flown coast to coast, this guitar damm near comes out of the case in tune!!!
3. Weight, well, as a brickmason for some 40 years, I find it lite weight...!!!
I'd say is's built like a Brick Sh@# House, with out the weight..& Smell

[David Wright]