Sho-Bud Pro problem (now with pictures)

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 30 Jul 2009 8:33 am

My string 8 E lower tuning rod appears to have "jumped" out of position at the end. The end of the rod with allen is now postioned up between the uppers and lowering rods are. When I look at the barrel on the other end, it looks like the sring is extended making the barrel longer than the others. I'm a new Sho-Bud owner, so I'm not too savvy to these things yet. Any ideas? Do I have to remove the rod and barrel adjust and re-install?

As you can see from the pictures the 8th string lower rod insert is quite different from the others. I'm not sure how or why it was working well from the beginning. Has anyone ever seen this before?

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 30 Jul 2009 5:47 pm

Post a couple of photos, if you can.

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 30 Jul 2009 6:29 pm

Yes; not quite sure what happened by your explanation(it is really hard to explain some things in words I know); but Take the barrel off. Take the rod out...Make sure the allen head is still attached to the end of the rod and doesn't move. Make sure the finger is in a rest position and not out of the raise and lower bars that the finger arms run into. And run the rod back through the lower hole of the finger(the hole furthest from the axle) and on to the puller or rack that lowers it from the knee lever. And now check your barrel so that it's screwed together about half way; so there's room to tune in or out; and make sure there is a small piece of spring sticking out of the smaller end. Now put back on rod...and push up against the puller or rack making sure the rod is still touching finger...and tighten. Now tune open string; then tune the barrel for the lower.
Ricky

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 30 Jul 2009 7:53 pm

...what Ricky said!

also you might see if there's a broken string ball end that's fallen between the 7th/8th or 8th/9th string changer fingers, causing a hang-up.

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 31 Jul 2009 8:50 am

When looking at the end of the guitar where the rods are lined up. You can see the upper row of rods for raises, and underneath the lower row of rods for lowers. The 8th string rod ending with the allen wrench fitting for lowering the E is not in line with the others. It has shifted upward into the middle out of line. I can't adjust the pull, so I'm thinking that the rod has somehow "jumped the tracks", so to speak. I'd like to post pictures, and if I can't figure it out I will.

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 31 Jul 2009 8:53 am

Rick, thanks. I think I'm going to have to follow your suggestion just to find out what happened. The little allen screw that is on the barrel...that's basically what connects the barrel to the rod, correct? After removing the barrel, the rod should slide out?

Marc Jenkins · Post by **Marc Jenkins** » 31 Jul 2009 10:15 am

Fred Glave wrote:Rick, thanks. I think I'm going to have to follow your suggestion just to find out what happened. The little allen screw that is on the barrel...that's basically what connects the barrel to the rod, correct? After removing the barrel, the rod should slide out?

That's correct, Fred. A couple turns should release the barrel. If there are any others on the same rod, you'll obviously have to remove those as well.

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 31 Jul 2009 10:52 am

Fred now the thing that's bothering me with your recent explantion....>is that lowering rod should not come out of that lower hole on the finger. That is a HOLE in the finger...and if the allen head is still attached to the rod and indeed jumped out of that hole...>than that tells me the hole is broken in that finger....>therefore you will always have that prob.
You can switch that finger with another finger that you are NOT lowering....Or you might need another single raise/single lower FINGER....I may have one.
Let me know what happened.
Ricky
P.S. yes a picture is worth a thousand words.

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 3 Aug 2009 10:40 am

As you can see from the new pictures, one with the rod in place, and one with the rod removed. Is there something goofy here?

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 3 Aug 2009 10:52 am

I'm with Ricky on this one. Something has changed but not for sure what. Look at your7th string cahnger and 8 should look just like it. Someone may have altered the changer in some way. I have a S-10 and mine are the same on every string.---Henry

Marc Jenkins · Post by **Marc Jenkins** » 3 Aug 2009 11:06 am

Fred, it looks to me like the finger was pulled too far, and the bottom section, which should rest underneath the platform, is now sitting on top. I'll bet that if you gently push in, and down, that it should be again in the right place, and you can then re-insert the pull rod.

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 3 Aug 2009 11:51 am

When looking at the picture with rod removed, the hole for the rod is on the top, and right underneath it is a slot, or something. The rod will not fit into the slot. I'm tempted to agree with Marc that the slot part should go under the platform. However, from what I've seen, when comparing this finger to the other ones, is that the other ones do not seem to have this slot thing. At least from the angles that I've looked from.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 3 Aug 2009 12:30 pm

I believe that rod has been pulled to far. That slot should be riding a "rail" that goes across the changer. That part needs to be pushed in a little, and then it should drop down and ride on the "rail", and the hole will be in the correct position. You might have to loosen some springs to get it to move. And then tighten it up again to get it to stay in position, and not slide off the rail again.Is the spring broken? Not sure. I had a guitar like that 30 years ago, but never took it apart.

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 3 Aug 2009 12:42 pm

The springs that I've seen underneath do not appear to be broken. John, I'm going to give that a try. Thanks.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 3 Aug 2009 12:51 pm

Fred, you'll probably have to loosen that rod up a bit to give the part with the slot the play it needs to go back into position.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 3 Aug 2009 12:58 pm

Since you have the rod out already, simply take a phillips head screwdriver and push the finger back and slip it back on the rail. Don't worry about taking springs off, they gave enough to let it slip out, they will give enough to push it back into position. Now, likely you have too much throw in one of your 8th string changes. Find which one it is and shorten that pull and retune.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 3 Aug 2009 1:01 pm

Thanks for steppin' in James! As I said, I had one in the 70's but was too chicken to take it apart!

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 3 Aug 2009 1:17 pm

It's tough to describe these sort of problems. The pic made it pretty clear. If Fred will examine the parts as Ricky suggest, and make the proper adjustments, he can have the guitar up and running quick enough. Those ends on the pull rod can develope some slop and eventually pop of. Fred's is probably fine, since it was in his first pic.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 3 Aug 2009 1:31 pm

I'm certainly no authority on 'Buds, but why do some of the fingers have holes, but many others slots or "egged" holes? It sure looks like there's been inordinate wear due to improper setup, poor pull geometry, or lack of lubrication (or maybe...all of the above). Fingers should all look pretty much the same, but a lot of those appear to be mangled terribly.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 3 Aug 2009 1:41 pm

Donny, I think sometimes the holes became out of round when the parts were bent. I believe they were pre-drilled then bent in not the most accurate manner. The rods are quite loose going through those holes, so,,, the holes didn't need to be perfect.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 3 Aug 2009 1:42 pm

Good point Donny. That's state of the art technology of the day, way back when. They COME factory mangled. The one you see the slot exposed is simply out of position. The others may have had the hole widened for some reason or another, or off center a little when they drilled. The amasing thing is when you set a guitar like that up, it plays wonderful and sounds great. It helps to have a degree in Wizardry.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 3 Aug 2009 1:49 pm

James, when I bought mine new in '72, the holes were like that. As you know, the holes aren't the mechanical bearing surface. They're just holes for the rods to pass loosely through. So no particular care was taken in making them. Also, the rods were aluminum, at least on mine. So they probably would produce pretty minimum wear on the hole drilled in the steel parts. I think,,,,,,;^}

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 3 Aug 2009 1:54 pm

Well, if the hole is too close to the side of that lower plate, you pick up friction. That WILL mess with your return a little--sometimes. I've seen where grooves worn in the sides, once in awhile.

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 3 Aug 2009 2:45 pm

I don't know how much this guitar has been played before I bought it last March. But the pictures I posted make some of the holes look like they've torn or broken through, and mangled. A lot of that has to do with the lighting. The picture of the changer in question is good, and shows exactly what is wrong. I'll take the suggestions and try to reposition that changer, and report back. Thanks a ton guys!

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 3 Aug 2009 2:51 pm

Cool Fred. For clarity, there are 10 fingers in the changer. Changer refers to the whole unit the fingers and related parts are housed in. It' the 8th string finger you want to reposition.