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Topic: Sleep Walk original S&J tuning? |
Walter Seaman
From:
Iowa, USA
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Posted 29 Jun 2009 5:05 am |
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I'm a new comer to Steel Guitar Forum so sorry if this gets asked a lot but can anyone tell me the lap steel tuning for Sleep Walk, played as the original Santo &Johnny version. A You Tube of S&J performing it in 1959 is at this url:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogxTQXAgY3Q
It looks to me like Santo (the one playing the steel I believe) is playing an 8-string. Is there a way to get most of the sound of this song using a 6-string lap steel? Like just using the 6 highest strings tuned like the 8-string is tuned?
Thanks!
p.s. Jeff Beck has a very nice version of this song covered on the Beckology collection. He plays it on a 6-string guitar in standard tuning E A D G B E (low to high) and uses a slide. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 29 Jun 2009 5:26 am
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http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/002431.html
According to this old thread, the tuning on the recording was C# minor. 8 string steel. [I'm not really familiar enough with it to tell if that is the tuning on the clip you posted.]
There is some discussion here as to application on a 6 string steel guitar you may find useful until more knowledgeable souls reply. Good Luck 
For another rendition on standard 6 string guitar, check out Brian Setzer's offering. |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 29 Jun 2009 12:23 pm
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| Quote: |
| Is there a way to get most of the sound of this song using a 6-string lap steel? |
You can play a passable rendition on a 6 string lap steel tuned to C6. Not 100% sure you can get the exact chord voice used for the G - B move at the end of the bridge, but the rest is pretty close. There's probably a better tuning choice, but if you are already in C6 the melody can be easily found. Work on the vibrato - it makes the song! |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 29 Jun 2009 1:23 pm
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Herb Steiner has a course out on this song alone.
It is done up in several different tunings.
Tab and CD. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 29 Jun 2009 1:39 pm
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It always sounded right on E13th to me, in the key of C. That long harmonic gliss in the intro ends on the B on the 12th fret, where it literally blooms. I could be wrong, though.
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Rich Hlaves
From:
Wildomar, California, USA
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Posted 29 Jun 2009 2:49 pm
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Hi Walt,
Welcome to the SGF. My take on Sleepwalk is use C6. It works well in 6 or 8 strings tunings. I think the C#m thing comes from S & J not being tuned to pitch and the band was just tuned to them. The song as recorded is not to pitch in C or C#.
If you plan to play the song in C#, other 6 string players in a band are going to have to capo up a fret to play a reasonable rhythm part. If you tune your steel to C# what else would you play with that tuning? There are so many trade offs if you are going to perform that you don't have to consider if you are just recording it or playing solo for fun.
The Georgeboards Sleepwalk DVD is a good lesson too. Have fun with it!
Best,
Rich |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 29 Jun 2009 4:24 pm
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I don't know Rich. In the key of C, it sure sounds to me like it's E and C# strings together in the 3rd and 4th measures of the melody. At the end of the bridge, too. Maybe I'm all wet, but it sure lays nicely on the E13th tuning. Low to high: B D E G# B C# E G#
The high G# and low B aren't used in the song. Actually, the low string would work easier if it was a C#, so a six string version could be C# E G# B C# E (C#m7 tuning).
I've played it on C6th, and it just doesn't sound right to me. I can get the right notes, but it doesn't have the same edge because they're on lower strings.
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Andy Schick
From:
Kingston, Ontario, Canada
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Rich Hlaves
From:
Wildomar, California, USA
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Posted 29 Jun 2009 5:44 pm
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| b0b wrote: |
I don't know Rich..........
I've played it on C6th, and it just doesn't sound right to me. I can get the right notes, but it doesn't have the same edge because they're on lower strings. |
b0b,
You've got me thinking now and that's a good thing! I play those measures on the second and third string (C & A) as double stops on fret 5, 7 & 8 the notes being F-G-G#-G-F on the 2nd or C string and D-E-F-E-D on the 3rd or A string. I seem to get plenty of zip and the intervals sound correct to my ear. I'm going to tune something up your way later tonight and give it go. You may have it nailed. I've always thought the little run that ends the melody finishes a bit low (A note) in C6 on the fifth fret of the low e string.
Best,
Rich
PS: Andy, That is sweet! |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 29 Jun 2009 8:55 pm
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| Rich Hlaves wrote: |
b0b,
You've got me thinking now and that's a good thing! I play those measures on the second and third string (C & A) as double stops on fret 5, 7 & 8 the notes being F-G-G#-G-F on the 2nd or C string and D-E-F-E-D on the 3rd or A string. I seem to get plenty of zip and the intervals sound correct to my ear. |
The intervals are right but the timbre is different. Using the E and C# strings, I'm on thinner gauges at a lower position (frets 1, 3 & 4), so there is more string vibrating.
_________________
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Walter Seaman
From:
Iowa, USA
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Posted 30 Jun 2009 5:52 am Thanks for the tips!
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Thanks everyone for these suggestions. I've messed around with Sleep Walk on my 6-string steel (Morrell, the cheap $150 version). The way it sounds closest to the orginial S&J to my (admittedly newbie) ears is to use the 6 highest strings from the tuning:
From low to high:
E G# B C# E G# C# E
(so I use B C# E G# C# E). I play the opening harmonic on the highest string starting in the 4th fret (Ab in ordinary tuning). Then the turn-around which occurs in the first verse
(in the You Tube of S&J
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogxTQXAgY3Q
this occurs at time 36-38seconds)
plays really nicely and easily by laying the bar across fret 4 and playing
E---4---4------
C#----4---4----
G#------------4-
E-------------
C#-------------
B-------------
It also looks like this may be what Santo is playing on the You Tube video.
But I'm new at this! Let me know if I'm wrong, that's VERY possible.
Thanks for the tips. I have also messed around with the C6 tuning and think it's great. I love Tom Morrell's Steel Guitar Rag too and have gotten some mileage trying to play that in open E tuning.
Happy Steel-ing!
WS |
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c c johnson
From:
killeen,tx usa * R.I.P.
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Posted 30 Jun 2009 7:05 am
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| Santo told me he did it in F#m. Which I posted along time ago. The conversation was very short and he may have given me the first tuning that came to his head. After that Jody Carver posted that the boys told him it was C#m. Jody knew the boys real well so I would accept what Jody said. Santo also said and I can't remember the scource that it didn't matter what tuning as he played very few chords and could play the melody in any tuning. When Santo said F#m (A6) I started playing it in A6 and still do.cc |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Scott Thomas
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Posted 30 Jun 2009 8:38 am
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| c c johnson wrote: |
| Santo also said and I can't remember the scource that it didn't matter what tuning as he played very few chords and could play the melody in any tuning. When Santo said F#m (A6) I started playing it in A6 and still do.cc |
I have a similar quote cited in the "Legends of Guitar--Rock: the '50s" liner notes:
(Santo)"I have a C#m7 on one neck, an A6 on another, and E7 on the third neck. Basically, I could play "Sleep Walk" on any of the necks, but I recorded it with the C#m7." |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 30 Jun 2009 9:01 am
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Yes, it's clearly C#m7 tuning if you watch the video, play along with it, and note the frets he's playing on.
BTW the original recording is in the key of C#. I read somewhere that the boys recorded the song in C (as they are playing it on the video) and the producer thought it was too slow, so they increased the tape speed bringing the song to up to C#. If that is true... then Santos' bar shivers (vibrato) heard on the record were actually played slightly slower than what we hear. In other words, speeding up the tape would speed up the bar shivers somewhat.
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Walter Seaman
From:
Iowa, USA
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Posted 30 Jun 2009 6:42 pm SW tabs look and sound AOK
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The tabs posted by Basilh at url
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=1088210#1088210
seem to be the best I've found for 6-string lap steel version of this song. Thanks to B0b for directing me to that discussion string and wow nice version of Sleep Walk by Doug B. in that string-wow that is great sounding!
The tuning in the tabs at this url also sound cool for Steel Guitar Rag on 6-string lap steel.
Thanks for you help gang on SGF!
WS |
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Rich Hlaves
From:
Wildomar, California, USA
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Posted 30 Jun 2009 8:30 pm
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| Geeze I love this place. Everyone is such a wealth of knowledge. Basil nailed it. |
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George Piburn
From:
The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
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Posted 1 Jul 2009 6:14 am edit
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edit
Last edited by George Piburn on 22 Jun 2012 7:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 1 Jul 2009 8:14 am
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| Quote: |
If that is true... then Santos' bar shivers (vibrato) heard on the record were actually played slightly slower than what we hear. In other words, speeding up the tape would speed up the bar shivers somewhat.
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Very interesting, Doug! Santo's vibrato, IMHO, is what gives the song its haunting, expressive quality. As much as I have tried to emulate it, I get close but I just can't seem to get the same effect. This may explain in part - or at least now I have an excuse! |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 1 Jul 2009 8:35 am
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| Quote: |
| Santo's vibrato, IMHO, is what gives the song its haunting, expressive quality. As much as I have tried to emulate it, I get close but I just can't seem to get the same effect. This may explain in part - or at least now I have an excuse! |
The "tape speed" issue has always been in the back of my mind when I play Sleep Walk. Santo played his vibrato slightly "slower" than what we hear on that record. The increase in tape speed (key of C to C#) makes his vibrato sound slightly faster than he actually played it, but... it sounds great! When I play Sleep Walk I try to copy the vibrato on the record, although it's a stronger and faster vibrato that I normally play on steel guitar.
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25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 1 Jul 2009 9:16 am
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In 1961 I was in a show band made up of GI's in Korea. We did variety shows with various types of music. I played mostly guitar and some banjo but the staff had a double six Rickenbacker which I tuned to E6th and A6th. I had to learn Steel Guitar Rag and Sleepwalk as part of the shows so I learned them on the E6th neck. It was tuned B C# E G# B E (low to high) On my pedal steel, my 9th string is tuned to C# so even to this day on my pedal I still play Sleepwalk the same way I learned it on the old Rick (with no pedals) using strings 4, 5, 6, 8, and 9. I think the bar movement gives it a better sound than pedals. I also increase the reverb quite a bit on this tune........JH in Va.
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 1 Jul 2009 9:19 am
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| Jerry Hayes wrote: |
| I think the bar movement gives it a better sound than pedals. I also increase the reverb quite a bit on this tune........JH in Va. |
I'm with you on that, Jerry. I also sometimes increase the treble on the amp for Sleepwalk.
Basil has noted that at the end of the bridge where the steel goes G to Bb to G, the band seems to stay on the G. I wonder if a chord chart for this should show G Gm G7. Seems to me that it would sound right, and the bass player wouldn't get confused by the "off chord" or over-emphasize the Bb note.
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