It's All About The Money... selling out is good...

[Marlin Smoot]

Kenny Chesney; "While not a fan of the actual beer, I've always loved the TV spots for Corona".

Corona is sponsoring Chesney's upcoming "Sun City Carnival" tour.

[Tommy Gibbons]

Country Music is now for marketing...then for the enjoyment of the listener. The Opry is a good example. The Opry's music is just a break for the commericals. IMHO

Tommy

[Donny Hinson]

Weak people (especially singers) find it very hard to refuse money. They will sign anything, sing anything, and do just about anything, all for the almighty buck. I think entertainers, in general, are the most insecure group of working people.

[Walter Stettner]

Be honest - that's how it has been in the past also. I just watched the Flatt & Scruggs TV show from the early 60 - with them doing "The Martha White Theme"....

Kind Regards, Walter

[Herb Steiner]

I think entertainers, in general, are the most insecure group of working people.

That is because, with the exception of a relatively small number of spots occupied by those with some degree of celebrity, entertainers and musicians are the least valued, and most easily replaceable, members of the work force.

We live in the fear that if we miss one phone call, the phone is destined to never again ring, lest some competitor for that job snag it and every other to come our way.

Of course, that was back in the day. In our modern world, with US unemployment at 8.5% and growing, job fear knows little compartmentalization nowadays.

God bless the child that's got his own.

[Brian Kurlychek]

We live in the fear that if we miss one phone call, the phone is destined to never again ring, lest some competitor for that job snag it and every other to come our way.

Ha, you just described what its like being a Realtor!

[Bo Borland]

I saw Rhonda Vincent and The Grascals and they both had buses completely painted with their sponsors product. It's how business is done, ask Mick Jagger.

[JB Arnold]

A certain well known Boulder producer once told me this:

"You want Art? I suggest visiting one of our many fine museums. They are full of art created by guys who never made a dime off their work and almost all died penniless and hungry. If you'd like to eat and pay rent you might try putting together something that will appeal to more than your friends and actually ship some saleable product. That crap you just pitched me ain't it."

I'm still working on it. I'd love to be good enough to sell out for the money-I'd do it in a heartbeat. Heck, I'd even stand in line to do so.

What's wrong with that? I thought the whole idea was to get paid.

JB

[Barry Blackwood]

I'm still working on it. I'd love to be good enough to sell out for the money-I'd do it in a heartbeat. Heck, I'd even stand in line to do so.

What's wrong with that? I thought the whole idea was to get paid.

But why is it you have to "sell out" to get paid?

[Herb Steiner]

But why is it you have to "sell out" to get paid?

Barry, are you actually seeking an answer, or is that simply a rhetorical question?

I will answer.

To get paid, someone else must pay you for your product or service, by definition. Those external someones are more likely to pay for what they want to obtain, if that differs from what you want to provide.

The degree of differentiation between what you optimally would like to provide and what you begrudgingly choose to provide in order to make the sale is the the degree to which you "sell out."

It's all based on the provider's intent.

Example: In the Gary Nunn band a couple years ago, the guitarist, an incredible jazz musician, was a virtual bitch machine. He made life on the road a drag for everyone by his continuous griping about everything; he wanted to play jazz, but because of the good pay, he was forced to "denigrate my art by playing this country crap."

I told him his unhappiness with the band and Gary was because he loathed the music he was playing and therefore loathed himself because he was a "whore."

He said, "well, you're a whore too, Herb."

I replied "Au contraire, Trevor. I like this music, I was on the original recordings, Gary is one of my oldest friends, and I'm perfectly happy with these tunes and country music. I'm doing what I enjoy. You, on the other hand, are whoring out your music because you want the bucks. You despise everything connected with it, including yourself. Therein lies the difference."

Therein lies the difference.

[Barry Blackwood]

It's all based on the provider's intent.

So in other words Herb, if I like the music I'm playing, I'm not selling out, and it doesn't matter what other people think. Sounds kinda like the Kenny G. syndrome to me.

[Kevin Hatton]

Perfect story Herb. This is why I am taking some time off. I'm getting only people who love real country music together and are good players. A rare case. I'm almost there. I played in an award winning "New Country" band for 7 years. That was more than enough. The worst thing in the music business is getting stuck in a situation that you hate just for the money. It reflects on stage and to the people around you. Being a road whore is not my idea of a music career. I've seen a few people burn out from it. Style over substance wins every time. Style with substance even better. Substance loses. By the way, I listen to cool jazz. Sonny Rollins and such. When I listen to country its Red Steagall and Wynn Stewart.

[Herb Steiner]

Barry
Absolutely. I don't believe Kenny Gorelick thinks he's "selling out." I think he believes he's making music and getting well paid for it. And he is making music AND he's getting well paid for it.

OTHER people think he's selling out. Well, I believe a musician's personal opinion is more important and relevant than is SOMEONE ELSE'S idea of what he "should" be doing. Personally, I'm not a fan of Kenny G's music, but then again, I'm not a fan of a lot of his detractors either. And I'm not about to tell any other musician what he should or shouldn't be playing. It's his or her career, after all, not mine.

I know that when someone who hasn't walked in my shoes comes up and pontificates about what he thinks I "should" be doing, my reaction is generally "Oh? Is that a fact?"

But, for argument's sake, let's say he DOES feel that he's selling out. At least he's getting a great amount of money for it. Life is full of compromises, and if getting rich is one of the compromises, it's one that can generally be very easily lived with.

Years back I'd hear steel players bitch and moan about Garth Brooks and his success, how he's "ruined" country music. Of course, these complainers were not professional musicians for the most part.

When I asked the pros... even the gripers... if they'd accept a gig with Garth if one was offered, they' replied "in a heartbeat."

Well, to be precise, some said "in a New York minute."

Artistic purity is such a beautifully noble position... as long as you have the luxury of not doing it for a living, that is. Otherwise it can be a very hard row to hoe.

Kevin, I admire you for your intestinal fortitude in your new endeavor. I know you were very high on your band and it's success for a long time, and y'all had a good marketing concept behind your success... what the audience wanted to see and listen to. But somewhere along the line things must have changed for you, at least within your gray matter... and that right there ultimately is what matters to all of us.

BTW, as a side note to the story I told above, the band atmosphere on the road got so bad due to the constant backfeeding of unhappiness that Gary got fed up and ultimately threw the babies out with the bath water. He got rid of the whole band, arguably his best one ever, even though the main problem was the guitarist's poisoning the situation. And when Trevor got fired, you should have heard the bile-laden litany of obscenities he came up with... he couldn't believe he was being replaced by a country guitarist! Truly it was a situation!

[Brad Bechtel]

I forget who said this:

The only thing worse than selling out is not being bought.

[Barry Blackwood]

OK Herb, before the misunderstanding goes any deeper, let's start over. First, 'selling out' was not my term, it was JB Arnold who used it. I don't necessarily disagree with it, I was merely asking why anyone playing 'just for the money' was considered selling out.

[Joe Miraglia]

If you are having fun doing what you are doing,keep doing it. At 69 I'm having fun playing the New Stuff,in a fun band to work with. I will add, I still like and play the older country music that I was playing 50 years ago.

Kevin, I though at the time,you enjoyed playing for B.B. Joe

www.willowcreekband.com

[Herb Steiner]

Oh... well then, to quote Emily Litella, "never mind."

Ya see, Barry, "selling out" is a very judgemental phrase that I personally dislike. It raises my hackles. It implies a superior artistic attitude that looks down upon those with commercial success. Even though I've never sought nor achieved commercial success with my music, my own philosophy is that a musician should be very critical of his own playing, and very generous with other players' music.

It's the safe way to be anyway. Folks can talk negatively about their fellow players music, but things that go around have a habit of coming around as well, if you know what I mean.

[Joe Miraglia]

Oh well my spelling is Thought, ok

[Barry Blackwood]

Oh... well then, to quote Emily Litella, "never mind."

Herb, I don't know Emily, but another well known personality connected to that phrase comes to mind ...

[JB Arnold]

OK Herb, before the misunderstanding goes any deeper, let's start over. First, 'selling out' was not my term, it was JB Arnold who used it. I don't necessarily disagree with it, I was merely asking why anyone playing 'just for the money' was considered selling out.

Actually I got it from the thread title.....And I equate it more with a judiciopus use of one's talents-if you can "go commercial" with enough stuff to make a good living, that should leave enough time to do some of the more satisfying, yet less lucrative stuff as well. I had many friends who would have called the more commercial work "selling out" out of jealosy really. I'd love to have that problem.

JB

[Michael Johnstone]

Well expressed Herb - as usual. Personally I keep waiting for someone to show me where to sign my name so I can sell out too. As it is around here,the gigs are so few and far between that I'm turning down zero gigs for whatever money. As long as I come home with more money in my pocket than when I left the house and get to play my steel,I'm excited. Recently I've been offered a gig in a travling Mexican rodeo in an extremely cornball act that plays in-between the bull wranglin' and goat ropin'. I'll be a sort of rodeo clown with a dobro(think Cousin Jody meets Bozo the Clown)and I wish I was kidding. But it's probably better money than I ever made with Dale Watson,Riders of the Purple Sage,Jim Lauterdale or any number of highly regarded,very musical and artistically "valid" acts so there ya go. I'm kinda lookin forward to paying my mortgage on time.

[Herb Steiner]

think Cousin Jody meets Bozo the Clown

Michael
Holy crap! Just the thought makes me want to put on a Kenny G record and play along with my Multi-Kord!!

Hey, uh... if the gig doesn't work out for you, could you give them my email addy?

Whoa! Wait a second... wasn't "Mexican Rodeo" a song by Wall of Voodoo, back in the 80's?

[Jim Cohen]

Dear Lord, please give me the chance to prove to you that fabulous wealth and fame won't spoil me.

Amen.

[Cameron Tilbury]

We're all whores. It's just that some of us have negotiated a better price than others.

[James Cann]

a hobby and a living: never as one.