Finger Pick Angle of Attack??

Kenny Radas · Post by **Kenny Radas** » 1 Apr 2009 10:54 am

What angle do you attack the string with your fingers picks, dead on center or more on the edge of the finger pick? A close friend and I got into a ‘discussion’ of which way would give the best tone. I always believed attacking the string at an angle from the back edge or edge toward the little finger resulted in the best tone. My friend says the opposite. He comes from a banjo background and I was a guitar player in a previous life. Just curious what other steel players do. Thanks for your comments.

Ulric Utsi-Åhlin · Post by **Ulric Utsi-Åhlin** » 1 Apr 2009 11:21 am

Edge attack,definitely...my finger picks
look like shark fins after a while...McUtsi

Ned McIntosh · Post by **Ned McIntosh** » 1 Apr 2009 2:02 pm

Jeff Newman insisted the best tone came from using the edge of the picks, and urged using picks 0.025" thick at least. If I recall it's actually on the Carter SmartStart DVD and he goes into some detail as to why the edge is best, plus a dissertation on correct hand-position.

Good place to start, I'd reckon.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 1 Apr 2009 5:48 pm

To me, "tone" is governed more by where you pick the string than it is by how you pick it. I use the pick slightly on the edge, but I don't think it has a big effect on "tone". (Elsewise, how would you define the "tone" of players who don't use fingerpicks?) I think it just changes the quickness of the attack, and makes the note "pop" out more. Of course, speed and power can also create a "popping" effect, even when no picks are used.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 1 Apr 2009 7:31 pm

Edge rules, but the location along the string means a lot too. So I hear from the neat notes of the great Jimmy Day.

Chris Buchanan · Post by **Chris Buchanan** » 1 Apr 2009 8:15 pm

I think the angle you use depends on how you block, and that forms your idea of tone. Palm blocking positions your hand where you use the edge. Finger blocking uses more of the center, at least from what I've noticed from my own playing and switching between the two methods.
FWIW I prefer the tone when using the center, and I rotate the fingerpicks so they hit dead on. I 90% pick block. Luckily my blocking and tone preferences work together.
I too am a former guitarist. I used to fingerpick guitar a lot (Piedmont a la Blind Boy Fuller), but never used fingerpicks.

Jonathan Cullifer · Post by **Jonathan Cullifer** » 1 Apr 2009 9:45 pm

Depends on the music. The way I play, the center of the fingers will yield a sharper attack which may be appropriate for some music. The more angled the pick, the mellower the attack.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 1 Apr 2009 11:30 pm

I try to get as much pick on the string as possible. I push straight through the string. I try not to use the edge or pick at an angle. I generally pick pretty hard also. Every steel teacher I have worked with privately showed me the same thing about how to get a solid tone out of a steel. From Buddy Charleton to Joe Wright.

Scott Hiestand · Post by **Scott Hiestand** » 2 Apr 2009 5:33 am

Bob

Are you saying Buddy and Joe both subscribed to the "straight on" attack theory? Because I always found I got better tone that way, but way back when I had purchased Jeff Newman's "Right Hand Alpha" video where he clearly prescribes to the angled approach. I seem to get a more "scraping, buzzing" sound picking at an angle where as straight on I get more of a clean "pop" or "punch", which to me is the sound I am looking for. I can sort of understand from a speed perspective how the whole curved hand thing may be better, but I will never be a lightning fast player and Buddy and Joe are (were) plenty fast.

I'm glad to hear there seems to be a disagreement among "pro's"....like most things with steel it appears to be an individual thing.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 2 Apr 2009 7:26 am

I don't like to say what other people do unless it relates directly to a personal experience but most every legendary steel player I have sat with or watched closely from Franklin to Emmons use the meat of the pick like Charleton showed me to get there sound. They may use a different hand shape though. It makes sense. Think of a violin bow. If you use the edge of the bow at an angle to the string you will not get the tone you get from playing straight across with as much bow hair as possible.

Check the Youtubes of the legends. You can clearly see the picking is across the strings in the direction of the players stomach and not angled back towards the bridge in basicly all of them.

To make sure I'm being clear you can use the tip of the pick when you pick straight or the center of the pick to get different tones like Jonathan mentioned. An angled pick where the side edge is the main contact point is the thing I rarely see among players.

Richard Damron · Post by **Richard Damron** » 2 Apr 2009 7:37 am

I must totally agree with Scott and Bob.

I've not been playing very long but am constantly working on the "straight - on" picking technique. The "scraping" which usually accompanies the edge technique bothers the heck out of me. I'm searching for a "clean" sound. One of these years I may just achieve it.

Ulric Utsi-Åhlin · Post by **Ulric Utsi-Åhlin** » 2 Apr 2009 9:08 am

I agree,it´s an issue of individual approach,and the
aim is good ole "tone",but the only way for me to
achieve "tip-only" would be right hand at a 90 degree
angle to the string,which just wouldn´t work...the
natural R hand position for me is along the lines of
the Newman school.McUtsi

David Wren · Post by **David Wren** » 2 Apr 2009 9:45 am

Here is probably a great picture of what not to do... unless you want to sound like me

Yes... those are all plastic picks, and there is a third on on my ring finger too. I call this technique the "bear paw claw"

OK, it's true, I grew up back in the hills

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 2 Apr 2009 10:32 am

David,
If you stick your thumb out farther like you were hitch hiking it would open up your hand and make room for your picking fingers to get a better angle on the strings with very little adjustment. Right now you are using the outside edge (away from your hand) of your thumbpick. Try to use the inside (closer to your hand) edge. Your hand will basicly stay in the same position but your fingers won't be getting in each others way.

Let me ad that whatever works for anybody is fine. This is just what I have been shown that works for me.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 2 Apr 2009 12:10 pm

For years, I wore out National fingerpicks on the side. Then I switched to Pro-Picks, which are angled, and that configuration made the whole flat part of the pick strike the string, causing a much bigger, better-sounding tone.

Another thing that helps me is to remember to pull that right elbow in closer to the body. That rotates the hand, pushing the thumb out a little further (See Bob's thumb comment) and allows for a better strike on the string. It also helps me in my quest to learn to palm-block the strings. I've always been a finger-blocker.

Lee, from South Texas

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 2 Apr 2009 1:54 pm

I agree with Chris B completely! My picks are angled. A bit differently on each finger in order to strike the string dead on.

Joe Savage · Post by **Joe Savage** » 2 Apr 2009 2:21 pm

I have to agree with Bob and those who use the pick face. I have also spent some time with Buddy C.
When I teach, I suggest to the student to try to get as much pick 'face' to contact the strings as possible. I think of it like driving a nail. Most don't use the edge of the hammer. I twist the face of the pick a bit with a pliers to get maximum contact. I think that's the whole premise of the angled Propiks. But, of course, whatever works....

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 3 Apr 2009 7:25 am

I also use the pick straight on, with the exception of when I am doing the Roy Bucannan 'false harmonic' blues/rock guitar type technique. Then I pick a string simultaneously with the thumb and a finger that's angled.

On the other hand, I don't believe that there is 'one best' technique. Period.

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 3 Apr 2009 8:28 am

I'm lately just amazing myself at how much difference I can get out of switching finger groups.
Example: When playing adjacent string pairs, I get a brighter sound when using the thumb together with a finger than using both fingers together. And that, even while using a nylon thumb pick I suspected could sound as muddy as it looks.
First I tried to fight that and find a way to generate the same timbre no mater what combination of fingers and thumb I use.
Now however, I have come to value this difference as a tool to my advantage as I seem able to use it to even out the timbre I get when switching string groups. Like; when playing E9th strings 5&6 and then switching to 5&4, I now prefer to brighten the lower string group by using my apparently brighter finger-thumb combination and darken a tad the higher string group using the finger-finger technique... brings it all "closer together" to my ears.

Works for me, so no more fighting myself.

... J-D.

Tommy Shown · Post by **Tommy Shown** » 3 Apr 2009 11:19 pm

I'm going to have to try that, for years I have been using the full pick face. I've tried the other way with the fingers on my right hand extended but have had no luck. I learn something new every day. thanks Bob
Tommy

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 4 Apr 2009 12:46 pm

Bob Hoffnar wrote:David,
If you stick your thumb out farther like you were hitch hiking it would open up your hand and make room for your picking fingers to get a better angle on the strings with very little adjustment. Right now you are using the outside edge (away from your hand) of your thumbpick. Try to use the inside (closer to your hand) edge. Your hand will basicly stay in the same position but your fingers won't be getting in each others way.

Let me ad that whatever works for anybody is fine. This is just what I have been shown that works for me.

I'd add to Bob's comment, that if you keep your elbo in and against your side, your hand will easily maintain a very good posture, and sticking your thumb out in a hitchhiking posture will be real easy.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 4 Apr 2009 2:06 pm

I'd add to Bob's comment, that if you keep your elbo in and against your side, your hand will easily maintain a very good posture, and sticking your thumb out in a hitchhiking posture will be real easy.

Isn't that what Lee said, above?

Another thing that helps me is to remember to pull that right elbow in closer to the body. That rotates the hand, pushing the thumb out a little further (See Bob's thumb comment) and allows for a better strike on the string.

Great minds think alike!

Actually, I think I learned that from Ricky Davis.

Lee

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 4 Apr 2009 2:12 pm

Lee Baucum wrote:

Great minds think alike!

Actually, I think I learned that from Ricky Davis.

Lee[/quote]

Yes Lee, I see I repeated what you said. But we learn from repetition, right??

I also learned that from Ricky Davis---so YOU are Ricky's other student, huh??

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 4 Apr 2009 2:14 pm

If you learned the Jeff Newman style like I did, edge attack is the only way. That is, with the index finger knuckle up high and palm blocking like he taught us. You revolve your hand to the right and thereby the edge attack.

With pick-blocking it is a different story since you naturally have a flatter hand and thereby pick more with the tip of the pick.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 4 Apr 2009 3:26 pm

Bent,
I'm not sure what you mean by edge of the pick. I took lessons from Jeff and he pushed straight through the string same as Charleton. If you check out youtubes of him his thumb is stuck out like he is hitch hiking and his elbow is at his side. He had such a nice solid tone that seemed to come from his ability to get so much of the pick on the strings.

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