A-B Toggle switch between PSG and Lap Steel

Jeff Hyman · Post by **Jeff Hyman** » 16 Mar 2009 11:52 pm

I'm looking for any suggestions on how to easily be able to switch (electronically) between PSG and a lap-steel on stage between songs. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking a simple A/B switch box will do, but if so, would the mute button need to be engaged to avoid a loud pop sound? Right now, I need to press the mute button, unplug the PSG mono-input into my rack, and insert the lap-steel cable in its place. Its a PITA and there must me a better way.

Ulric Utsi-Åhlin · Post by **Ulric Utsi-Åhlin** » 17 Mar 2009 12:31 am

LEHLE has a pro-line of boxes that do various split-
related tricks ; they´re extremely well-built ; the
one designed for 1-3 instruments + tuner into 1 amp
is called 3at1 SGoS ; not really cheapo,but vevvy
good...McUtsi

Mike Christensen · Post by **Mike Christensen** » 17 Mar 2009 1:09 am

I use a Peavey amp so I have two inputs. Lap steel in the top,pedal steel in the bottom. The pedal steel is run through a Matchbox 7A. My volume pedal is run through the Pre-EQ patch in front giving me control over which ever guitar I want. If I am playing the Pedal steel I just turn the volume control off on the lap. If I'm playing the lap I shut the switch off on my 7A. Works very well with a minimum of fuss. Happy Trails Mike C.

David Nugent · Post by **David Nugent** » 17 Mar 2009 3:47 am

deleted

D Schubert · Post by **D Schubert** » 17 Mar 2009 5:10 am

I have been using ZZYZX Snap Jack cables with my multi-instrument setup, with a magnetic tip in each instument (guitar, lap steel, etc.) and a single magnetic cord running to my pedal board and amp. I had to buy a handful of extra tips to "come out even"

These work very well for mid-set or even mid-song changes, as they go completely dead when disconnected, and re-attach quickly and quietly.

http://www.zzyzxsnapjack.com/std-snapjack.html

Jonathan Lam · Post by **Jonathan Lam** » 17 Mar 2009 5:32 am

Korg Pitchblack plus has an A/B input and toggle switch whle also having +-.01 cent accuracy.

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 17 Mar 2009 11:42 am

Jeff, I'm pretty sure if you wired up a small project box with two ins, one out, and a SPDT switch for the hots, keeping the grounds tied together, you can switch instruments with no pops. Add a broom handle clip for your steel leg. Radio shack parts should do it for $5-7.

Tom Jordan · Post by **Tom Jordan** » 17 Mar 2009 2:54 pm

Jeff,

I'm using a Morley A/B box...no popping at all. This box will do A/B or A and B. It is equiped with two "stomp" switches (A/B, A&B), LEDs so you know which is active before you play and the 9 volt battey has been in for over two years. The battery is only for the LEDs...can't beat that.

Tom

Jeff Hyman · Post by **Jeff Hyman** » 17 Mar 2009 6:12 pm

Thanks for all the great feedback. David, you holding something back? :-) You know I have plenty of respect for all your posts.

Tom,

The Morley seems to look like it may do the trick the way I was thinking. One question though... the website is very specific that there is not to be any powered speaker lines in the loop. Would a 7A Matchbox (2 9-volt batteries) cause any problems??
http://www.morleypedals.com/daby.html

Tom Jordan · Post by **Tom Jordan** » 18 Mar 2009 7:32 am

Jeff,

I do run my effects (pre-amp, delays, etc) before the A/B box....I'm sure they are refering to powered speaker cables...I hope

Tom

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 18 Mar 2009 8:00 am

Any A/B box will work whether it "pops" or not. Just put it before the volume pedal and then back off the pedal before you switch.......JH in Va.

Kevin Mincke · Post by **Kevin Mincke** » 18 Mar 2009 9:25 am

http://www.bosscorp.co.jp/products/en/LS-2/index.html

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 18 Mar 2009 9:35 am

Jeff, I use the morley a/b. it does not pop and i use it with a tube pedal that has a weird AC power supply (seymour duncan twin tube) so the matchbox shouldnt be any problem.

I HAVE however heard that the morley and most other a/b pedals arent properly grounded so they can suck tone or add noise or something. I dont notice it on the morley, but i still am going to just build my own properly grounded one to replace it as Mark Van Allen suggested. Fulltones website has the schematic.
General Guitar Gadgets has a kit for $30 but Im gonna just order from small bear in parts and build one.

I want to put a volume pot on one of the two outputs so i can match the volume of the two instruments, but so far i havent been able to get anyo0ne to share with me how that might be done.

Tom Jordan · Post by **Tom Jordan** » 18 Mar 2009 9:38 am

Kevin,

That is even better! I like it better than the Morley because of the A/B level adjustments. My issue with line level shows up because the steel is much hotter than my Telecaster. If I'm switching within a song, I've got to be careful of the volume pedal since I share it with both instruments. That individual level adjustment should even things out a bit.

Tom

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 18 Mar 2009 9:44 am

That Boss DOES look great. It also powers your pedals!

but the jacks are on the sides and for my pedalboard that is a bummer. Thats what I am talking about tho with the line level adjustment feature i want to build into my own a/b box. The schematic for the a/b box is very simple...wiring in a volume pot cant be that hard can it?

Jeff Hyman · Post by **Jeff Hyman** » 18 Mar 2009 4:44 pm

Back in the day, we all probably had several Boss type floor pedals. The only thing I didn't like about those days was needing AC with that wall-wart. The 9v batteries always seemed to die in the middle of a favorite steel ride. Kevins link to the Boss pedal is very impressive. It is probably overkill for what I need, as I wouldn't be switching instruments in the middle of a song. Not being at the mercy of AC is a plus. Tom/Jerry/Ben... I'm going to give your approach a whirl. I've got plenty of GeorgeL cable and connectors, so it will be a breeze to test where-in-the-loop to place the unit. This thread has been full of great input. Much appreciated!

Just ordered it from AmericanMusicalSupply for $54.95 includes shipping.

Kevin Mincke · Post by **Kevin Mincke** » 18 Mar 2009 6:46 pm

Yep, the seperate levels is what sold me on it. I now have two as I run one for my acoustic and mandolin together and harmonica/accordion. The work quite well (no pops) and are flexible enough to drive two instruments into an amp or vice-versa.

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 19 Mar 2009 6:26 am

I got someone to tell me how to wire in a volume pot.
It is even easier than i thought. I think i am going to try and mod my morley for proper ground and an added volume pot....or just build a whole new enclosure. I want an ac jack too and the morley lacks that. The battery lasts forever but i still dont like having to unplug the cables in order not to drain it. Those George L's dont like to be plugged in and unplugged repeatedly.

I swear , I could rearrange my pedalboard for years and still never be satisfied.

Jeff Hyman · Post by **Jeff Hyman** » 19 Mar 2009 3:38 pm

Ben Jones wrote: Those George L's dont like to be plugged in and unplugged repeatedly.

I don't understand what you mean. The GeorgeL tip is a solid piece of metal. If you remove or insert holding this metal, how can any cable be unhappy? If you use the cable itself, then you'll have this problem (eventually) with any cable.

David Nugent · Post by **David Nugent** » 21 Mar 2009 10:04 am

Jeff...Thanks so much for the compliment. The following is the post I deleted...I ran a similar setup to yours (resonator guitar and steel) and the easiest solution for me was to rewire my Goodrich VP.(I don't care for most A/B boxes, they tend to negatively alter the instruments tone, JMO.) I rewired one of the outputs as an input, used a simple on/off switch to engage/disengage the Dobro, and like Mike used my Matchbox to turn the steel off when not in use. (If you don't mind using the volume knob on your lap to turn it on and off, you can even eliminate the need for the switch.)I had first considered the system that Mike mentioned which is much more simple and straightfoward and therefore makes a lot of sense, but found I much prefered the tone of the steel when used alone in the "High Gain" input (again JMO)as when using both inputs on a Peavey amp, both become "low gain" units.

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 21 Mar 2009 7:24 pm

I've built several Junction~Boxes for friends who play both Lead Guitar and PSG. I used a Radio Shack Project~Box with (2)-Inputs and (1)-Output to the Volume-Pedal. This box clamps onto the PSG-Leg and also incorporates a SPST ON/ON Mini-Toggle. Then just plug the steel into one input and their other instrument into the other input and they're good to go, using the same Volume-Pedal for both instruments! Never had any complaints about any noise during switching from one to the other!

Jeff Hyman · Post by **Jeff Hyman** » 21 Mar 2009 9:35 pm

Hmmmmm... from the feedback, it appears that the location in-the-loop plays a big factor. I will certainly need to try both pre-pedal and post-pedal approaches. I will have little tollerance on sacrificing tone... on either instrument. I'll just need to test both. I'm curious about one thing though, what would cause tone deterioration if only a simple a/b toggle? Is it a grounding issue? I'm no electronic guru. The 9-volt battery in the Morley unit states it only controls the red LED light, and has nothing to do with the performance of the A/B functionality.

John... do you still make those units? If yes, whats the cost? It sure sounds like a very simple solution... especially if pre-pedal.

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 22 Mar 2009 7:17 am

Hi Jeff,

regarding George L's, any point of repeated stress is gonna be the wink link and in the rare cases when George L's have failed on me its been on cables that get repeatedly plugged in and out.

regarding a/b/ noise isuues: This is from fulltones webiste where he has a nice a/b box scematic, picture and diagram.

"There is an inherent problem with most A/B Boxes when running seperate effects for each channel.
Most A/B Boxes do not ground out the channel not being used, resulting in massive hum + hiss
when distortion or fuzz pedals are left on."

Heres the link to the a/b box i intend to build, but mine will be modified with volume pots for the two out/ins . I am ssuming it works in reverse like the morley does and that i can plug two INS going into one OUT. If thats wrong someone please correct me quick before i go to small bear and order the parts.
Maybe I will email mike at fulltone and ask him.

http://www.fulltone.com/qaframe.html

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 22 Mar 2009 8:52 am

You can't have both instruments ‘ON’ at the same time! If so, the volumes and tone-controls will effect both instruments. You need to turn one ‘ON’, and the other ‘OFF’, which is done with the use of the SPST ON/ON mini-toggle on the project-box. The A~B boxes that I've built only switched from one instrument IN to a second instrument IN. Both instruments went through the same volume-pedal and to the same Amp. INPUT. There was no change to the Basic Amp. settings, although they might have changed Programs on their Effects-Processors.

Jeff Hyman · Post by **Jeff Hyman** » 22 Mar 2009 1:29 pm

Ben Jones wrote:regarding George L's, any point of repeated stress is gonna be the wink link and in the rare cases when George L's have failed on me its been on cables that get repeatedly plugged in and out.

I am assuming you are not yanking on the cable, but are yanking on the metal tip when inserting/removing the cable. Correct? If yes, I do it twice a night. Setup and breakdown. I've experienced maybe one problem in years. Are you doing this more then twice per night? Also... I purchased my GeorgeL hardware a long time ago. I read somewhere here about a metal quality problem. Don't know. I'm not disputing your issue with GeorgeL... but I am not experiencing the same problem. I know they're touchy about the rotations to secure the cable to the connector.

I'd love to hear back from you on your A/B project. You seem to have a much better knowledge then I do on the subject. I'll do whatever is needed to get the job done. Luckily, this is not an expensive project. I'll come back with whatever I find out on the Morley. If all else fails, could I pay you to make me one?