rocking the leslie 145

Spencer Cullum · Post by **Spencer Cullum** » 1 Oct 2008 3:57 pm

just been recording and using a leslie 145 with pedal steel - what a great and different sound

i wish i could just take one on the road with me!!

anyone here rock a leslie??
spencer

Joshua Grange · Post by **Joshua Grange** » 1 Oct 2008 4:33 pm

Yes!
Great sound.
I played through one on the Gary Louris record "Vagabonds".
Have you tried the Rotosphere pedal? It's actually a really decent Leslie simulator complete with adjustable overdrive, balance adjustment between the high horns and low rotor, fast/slow speed and breaker switch.
It's also a little easier to carry around....

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 1 Oct 2008 4:42 pm

Plenty has been written here about roto-sims. I love using them. I actually had the opportunity recently to play thru a guitarist's Fender Leslie (I forget what they are called) and I'm amazed to say that I actually dig the simulators more (for getting the sound that's in my head). I love my Rotosphere but since I've been using a Pod XT exclusively for FX lately I've become a fan of its roto model. I find it very musical---especially with a lightly overdriven amp model like a bassman.

Spencer Cullum · Post by **Spencer Cullum** » 1 Oct 2008 4:59 pm

Joshua Grange wrote:Yes!
Great sound.
I played through one on the Gary Louris record "Vagabonds".
Have you tried the Rotosphere pedal? It's actually a really decent Leslie simulator complete with adjustable overdrive, balance adjustment between the high horns and low rotor, fast/slow speed and breaker switch.
It's also a little easier to carry around....

been wanting to get a rotosphere - someone said the mk2 is the one to get thou

i love the breakup of the 145 when its loud - and using harmonics on the steel with the leslie has a real 'echoes' pink floyd sound

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 1 Oct 2008 5:08 pm

Dynachord CLS-222
The best Leslie sim I've found.

Harvey Richman · Post by **Harvey Richman** » 1 Oct 2008 5:09 pm

Hi from GA USA Spencer, you'll be sorry you got me started. Long day at the mill and I need to go back in time and get my mind off it. Yes, Leslies do indeed Rock. I must be honest, I have never played my steel thru a leslie, regular guitar and even vocals yes. However, back in the day, when I was dragging around a B3 and before I knew what a pedal steel was, I had more leslies than I could count. Evil Ways, Black Magic Woman, and Whiter Shade of Pale were my big numbers, nuff said. Don Leslie, utilizing the "doppler" effect, created the leslie speaker to duplicate the effect of sound comimg from different directions as with a church organ with multiple ranks of pipes. Actually, Laurens Hammond (yes, the Hammond) disliked the leslie speaker (understatement). It wasn't till later that jazz, blues, and eventually rock players discovered its potential. What you need to do is hook up a switch to your volume pedal so you can shift into high speed as you slide up the the neck (like we organists do). It would awkward to hit that half moon switch mounted on your rear apron with the bar in your left hand!

Re. taking one on the road, I think most of what we love to hear is coming out of the horn on top. If you listen to one of the leslies that has just a 12 or 15 in spkr, if just doesn't do it. Motion Sound makes a small modern upper unit but it has to be miked as the output is so low (and it's pretty darn expensive). You could make one with just an upper horn and driver easily, ebay has lots of stuff available. The key is replacing the original cheap Jensen or other driver with a good hefty one like an electro voice or JBL. That will give you the highs and a good bit of midrange.

For some early leslie mastery, check out Felix Cavaleri of the Young Rascals http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1QWk0gd8K0

Also, Rod Argent (Zombies, Argent) and Greg Rollie (Santana and .....)

Check out Wikipedia's info on this. Really interesting history! Keep on a rockin that Leslie!

Best Regards
Harvey Richman

Harvey Richman · Post by **Harvey Richman** » 1 Oct 2008 5:16 pm

Wow, all those posts while I was getting nostalgic. Yes, there are many good simulators around today. But, there's just something about the real thing. Maybe part of it's just watching the darn thing spin!

Best Regrads
Harvey Richman

Spencer Cullum · Post by **Spencer Cullum** » 1 Oct 2008 5:43 pm

hey harvey - what a great video - young rascals rock

the band im touring with at the moment drag a hammond m3 and a 145 - so pulling another 145 for my steel might not go over so well

i have a 145 in he uk aswell that i think i will just use for recording purposes - nothing beats the real deal

spencer

p.s gotta love 'planet caravan' by black sabbath for leslie vocal sound

and of 'let it be' aswell

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 1 Oct 2008 5:53 pm

1981, 82 and 83 I played B3 with a 13-piece reggae band, full horn section and 3 women back-singers. I have 3 Dog Night's A-100 and I had it rebuilt, by Keyboard Products, along with the 122. The 122 has their 100 watt amp, a pedal board to control the Leslie speeds, tone controls and a guitar input.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 1 Oct 2008 5:56 pm

I used one back in the '60s. Cool sound, but it broke up easily. Gotta hand it to 'em though, when you hear it live and close up, no simulator even comes close to a real Leslie (IMHO). There's a spaciousness you get with that "360-degree sound" that stationary speakers simply cannot duplicate. Of course, if you hear it on a recording or run through a PA system, most of that's lost, and then the electronic gizmos win out.

Harvey Richman · Post by **Harvey Richman** » 1 Oct 2008 6:00 pm

Chas, I'd love to sit down at that!!

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 1 Oct 2008 9:56 pm

I have a 145 for my A-100, but it would require quite a bit of finagling to set it up for guitar or PSG. I used to use a Leslie 18 for guitar quite a bit - http://www.mosweb.com/vibratone/id4.htm - this is back in my pre-PSG days when I was very spoiled being able to just carry a guitar, Fender combo amp, with a gig bag on my shoulder to gigs, and I thought the Leslie was too much work. So I sold it to a B3-playing friend who needed something more portable than his 145. Anymore, it'd just be like hauling around a PSG, no big deal.

A couple of years ago, I picked up a Leslie that forum member Jim Dempsey stuffed into a small homemade cabinet with a single high-power Eminence 12" speaker. Just has the bass rotor like the Leslie 18, but it really does sound good. I run it with an old cut-in-half Dual Showman cabinet with a 15" JBL in it, all powered by my THD Flexi-50 amp when I'm looking for that sound - it's pretty massive-sounding and I can actually haul these around with no problem at all. I agree that the treble rotor is critical for organ, but I think I actually prefer just the bass rotor for guitar or PSG.

Honestly, my Pod 2's Leslie emulation is pretty good, especially if I can run it stereo into a couple of amps - I have these little Ampeg BA-112 bass amps that work pretty good for this without blowing the roof off. OK, OK, it's not the same, but when they're cranked up in a band that's pushing pretty hard, they sound pretty realistic in the mix. I think the biggest difference is that you can feel the pressure of a real Leslie spinning.

Rick Johnson · Post by **Rick Johnson** » 2 Oct 2008 4:08 am

I've always loved the sounds
of the Leslie/Hammond together.
I actually made a 145 tone cabinet
just to see if I could. There is a
short demo of on my website.

Rick

www.rickjohnsoncabs.com

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 2 Oct 2008 4:46 am

For both steel and 6-string I much prefer the Leslie 18 (12" speaker) or the far more common Leslie 16/Fender Vibratone (with a 10" speaker - both made by CBS and identical except for nameplate). It sounds like it would not work for steel, but in mine I changed the speaker (a Utah) and installed a 100-watt Weber California, which is incredible in the thing. I've run it with Fender tube amps and some high-power bass rigs (for steel) and never had a problem with power handling...it must be in the crossover.

FWIW the Leslie 18 does not have a "bass rotor" - it's a 12" guitar speaker facing a rotating baffle.

The main difference between these and the 145/122 and the like is portability - all these are just a little larger than a Twin - and the lack of the harsh-sounding horn. They use a crossover with a double footswitch and hook up to your speaker's plus, with another plug going to your amp's speaker output jack. They have no internal amplifier - they are designed from the ground up as a guitar device, not a keyboard one, and with far better results.

The crossover sends the high/lows to the guitar amp speakers, and the mids to the Leslie speaker, which is mounted facing a rotating curved baffle. The sound comes out ports on the side of the cabinet as the baffle turns; one footswitch turns the signal to the crossover on/off, and the other alternates between high and low speeds, with the wonderful "ramping" feect (slowing down/speeding up, almost a different instrument when you learn how to "massage" it).

I had a 122...the 145's big brother...and IMO the simple Leslie 16/Vibratone sound just blows it away for string instrument use. The wood cabs are designed for home use and do not take much abuse, and the horn works fine with keys but is horrible sounding (IMO) with steel and 6-string. Combined with the portability and the fact you can find them for $500 or so they are a great deal - the sound is just huge and full, with no icepicky horn harshness.

Caveat- you MUST have the crossover for it to work right. Wired as an extension speaker it just does not sound as rich. The crossovers are often lost but a couple organ service companies make reasonably-priced replacements.

As far as emulators, the Rotoshpere is pretty good, the Arion SCH-1 Chorus (not the new SCZ-1) is sleeper for low-speed Leslie sounds, but the big daddy is the discontinued Korg G4. It's designed to emulated the horn/woofer type, but has balance controls that cut the harshness. they are the closest thing yet.

The really interesting thing is I have never had any issue with impedance problems, and I've never seen impedance data for the crossover nor tried to measure or calculate it - but I DO know you can use the 18/16/Vibratone with a Super Reverb (the most finicky Fender amp about impedance matching on the low side) without anything heating up more than normal, and the tube bias does not shift.

I sold my 16 a while back and have been using a G4, but I'm already planning on switching back - the real thing is FAR more lush and huge sounding.

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 2 Oct 2008 5:16 am

I schlepped a 147 around for about 10 years and played steel and Guitorgan thru it when I was playing with Billy Swan and Buddy Hollywood. I love it - there's nothing like it - and I'm glad it's gone. I now use a Roto-Sphere thru a highly modified Fender Blues DeVille and it's plenty close enough.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 2 Oct 2008 6:33 am

FWIW the Leslie 18 does not have a "bass rotor" - it's a 12" guitar speaker facing a rotating baffle

Yeah, I know it's a rotating baffle. That terminology is pretty common nonetheless, even among many Leslie afficionados who are well aware of the distinction.

I also prefer "without treble horn" for guitar or steel also, but I know others who feel differently - purely personal taste. I use an emulator most of the time also, but there is truly nothing like having a real Leslie of some sort.

The guy who bought my Leslie 18 for road use with his B3 use did ultimately get one of those Motion Sound units. Properly mic'd up, it did sound great in the mix. But somehow it didn't quite have the physical feel of his big Leslie.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 2 Oct 2008 6:56 am

When I play, I use an H & K Rotosphere unit.
I run it through the effects loop on my rack in stereo.
I think maybe that's the secret to getting a good sound.
I have the unit setting by my rack and then I have a remote, two button switch located by my left foot to kick it in and out.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 2 Oct 2008 7:56 am

I gotz a bunch of these things. A good friend was a Hammond repair guy. Parted out a lot of organs, and gave me these. I made one unit for guitar with a 12" speaker.

Rick Johnson · Post by **Rick Johnson** » 2 Oct 2008 11:32 am

John
You're making my mouth water

Rick

www.rickjohnsoncabs.com

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 2 Oct 2008 12:07 pm

Rick, I also have these. Shoot me an email.

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 2 Oct 2008 12:55 pm

I had

a smaller version of these big classics (forgotten the model #) that was much easier to deal with, but was incredible sounding with guitar, bass, and lap steel.
A beautiful piece just to have in the living room to look at, as well.

Here's a site that has lot's of great info - http://theatreorgans.com/hammond/faq/my ... stery.html

Tracy Sheehan · Post by **Tracy Sheehan** » 2 Oct 2008 8:30 pm

I hated that heavy leslie i had to drag around on the road back in the early 70's.Nothing wrong with one,i was just forced to use one in many parts of the country to keep the steel from sounding like a steel.That is if i wanted to keep working.And a fuzz tone.

Talk about noise.Good thing the owners of the places i played out there had no idea what a steel was.
So many parts of the country would not book a country band.It was a matter of survival.
Can't think of his name at the moment,but would like to hear from the steeler in Wa.i believe it is.
Back then you coulden't give a country song away in Wa.or Oregan with a fifty dollar bill wraped around it.Wonder if it has changed over the years?
BTW.It was just as bad back then in some places as it is now.In one state (i don't reacll) which one thank goodness,Every night people requested Green Onions.The band and i got so sick of it i said one night i will fix this.I got my fiddle out,ran it thru the fuzz tone playing double stop.
It sounded so terrible you woulden't believe it.Now for the kicker.It brought the house down and they wanted me to play it again.That was another time i almost gave up music.LOL.True story.

Harvey Richman · Post by **Harvey Richman** » 3 Oct 2008 8:06 pm

Somewhere in the 70s I guess, I got one of those new fangled black vinyl covered / Fender like grill cloth solid state Leslies (mine was the big two piece one, taller than me). They had numbers like 900 or 910 but they came to be disparagingly known as the "Partridge Family" Leslies because of their frequent guest appearances on the TV show. Underpowered and awful sounding. After that, it was back to 145.

Check it out, it's like Waldo, hiding everywhere in this video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJYSu2OVCGM

I really need to get a life! LOL

Regards
Harvey Richman

Jeff Hyman · Post by **Jeff Hyman** » 4 Oct 2008 3:32 am

Can anyone furnish a link to a website that shows these smaller electronic simulators mentioned above? My only luck searching for leslie is below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_K3KHkZ2t8
http://musicrx.us/LeslieCabinetsAll.asp
http://musicrx.us/Leslie.asp
http://www.mitatechs.com/leslierumors.html
http://www.blamepro.com/mwn/Tips/leslie_gtr.htm

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 4 Oct 2008 5:52 am

I have one of these Motion Sound Pro 3T units.
It actually revolves and has a footswitch to ramp the speed up or down.

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rocking the leslie 145

rocking the leslie 145

Leslies do indeed rock!

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My worst ever Leslie!