Isaac Hayes dead at 65

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 10 Aug 2008 2:48 pm

Another one of the true greats is gone. He collapsed this afternoon at home. Story here: http://www.wmctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8817903

Ironically, he was scheduled to play himself in a musical comedy starring actor Bernie Mac, who died yesterday.

RIP, Isaac.

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 10 Aug 2008 3:04 pm

Mixed feelings. Culturally huge. But maybe directly responsible for dumbing down R&B and destroying the Stax groove that is some of my favorite music.
The fact that the world was seeing seismic upheaval at the time (MLK dead in Memphis) makes change inevitable so I don't know if I can rail against where it all went but it sure pandered to simple minds at the expense of a highly developed groove (outrageously elitist statement).

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 10 Aug 2008 4:57 pm

I dunno, Jon. He did add an air of urbane sophistication to the Memphis sound with 1969's "Hot Buttered Soul", but to me, his sound from this period was as greasy as anything I've ever heard. I think your second analysis is correct - a lot of this change was fermenting in the late 60s as black artists established their own identity as the classic Stax/Volt sound became more a province for young white audiences. The Theme from Shaft stands up as one of the defining musical moments of the 70s, to me. I also think it's easy to overlook his production contributions to the classic soul sound of the 60s because it was so overshadowed, in the public mind, by the later stuff.

I frequently hear him blamed for disco, but I think his biggest effect was on people like O.V. Wright, Al Green, Syl Johnson, and the others who carried on the soul tradition into the 70s with great music. It's true that the disco folks borrowed significant elements of his sound, including the heavy orchestration. But they sterilized it beyond description, using a completely robotic beat and dumbed-down everything. His first real disco record was much later, in the mid-70s after he was in financial trouble. That stuff was commercially successful, but not enough to save him from bankruptcy.

Of course, the rappers also borrowed heavily, but they borrowed from lots of others.

If most disco or rap had half the soul of Isaac Hayes, I'd be into it myself. My opinion, of course.

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 10 Aug 2008 5:27 pm

Thought provoking post, Dave. Hayes always rubbed me wrong and that's just what it is. But I can't claim to be that knowledgeable about the history/influence line nor do I know his music well, beyond the most popular lowest common denominator stuff.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 10 Aug 2008 5:36 pm

Yeah, Jon - I know people who feel the same way. His music was not as pure as the fresh wind-driven snow, and he's taken some flack for it.

I'm not trying to invalidate your feelings, or raise him to a saint. I guess I just have a different perspective.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 10 Aug 2008 6:02 pm

Jon Light wrote:Mixed feelings. Culturally huge. But maybe directly responsible for dumbing down R&B and destroying the Stax groove that is some of my favorite music.
The fact that the world was seeing seismic upheaval at the time (MLK dead in Memphis) makes change inevitable so I don't know if I can rail against where it all went but it sure pandered to simple minds at the expense of a highly developed groove (outrageously elitist statement).

Guy ain't even cold yet and you bad mouthing him!!??
Geez.

"I'm talking 'bout Shaft!"

FROM THE NEWS......

"Hayes became Stax's rising star starting in 1966, and over the next few years some 200 Hayes-David Porter compositions became standards.

His career took off in 1969 with the landmark "Hot Buttered Soul" album, which stayed on the pop chart for 81 weeks and forced the music industry, for the first time, to conceive of soul music as an album art form.

At the time of emerging Black Power and with the death of Martin Luther King as a conscience building experience, Hayes transformed his image into a revolutionary statement, dressing in black leather, draping his bare chest in rows of gold chains and shaving his head completely.

After his career-defining soundtrack for the 1971 movie "Shaft," for which Hayes picked up an Oscar, three Grammy awards, a Golden Globe award, and an Edison award, Europe's highest music honor, Hayes began acting in scores of movies and television series."

There's a lot more. Guy had quite a career. I say let him rest in peace.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 10 Aug 2008 6:21 pm

Jon Light wrote:Mixed feelings. Culturally huge. But maybe directly responsible for dumbing down R&B and destroying the Stax groove that is some of my favorite music.
The fact that the world was seeing seismic upheaval at the time (MLK dead in Memphis) makes change inevitable so I don't know if I can rail against where it all went but it sure pandered to simple minds at the expense of a highly developed groove (outrageously elitist statement).

I'm not sure you can accuse him of destroying the Stax groove since he was one of the writers and players responsible for building it in the first place. His songwriting credits with David Porter and the number of sessions he played on speak for themselves. He was a Soul Giant.

Brian Kurlychek · Post by **Brian Kurlychek** » 10 Aug 2008 7:32 pm

Oh no, they killed Chef!

Steve Alcott · Post by **Steve Alcott** » 10 Aug 2008 8:08 pm

Check out "Sweet Soul Music" by Peter Guralnick for a history of Stax from start to finish.

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 11 Aug 2008 8:01 am

Aside from his music, I was watching the news when they announced that he'd died and his body was found next to a treadmill. A treadmill? Just goes to show you that exercise can kill! I used to jog a lot until my brother in law (who was my age) died about 12 years ago while out jogging! The high guhru of running (Jim Fixx) also died while out jogging at around 55 years of age or so as well as a local TV newsman in this area in his early fifties. When my bro in law died I quit jogging and haven't since. I go to the rec center three times a week and get on the treadmill and I'm going to quit that. I'll bet if he'd just watched his diet a little more and kept off that thing he'd still be with us....Just my opinion...........JH in Va.

P Gleespen · Post by **P Gleespen** » 11 Aug 2008 8:27 am

Jerry Hayes wrote:Aside from his music, I was watching the news when they announced that he'd died and his body was found next to a treadmill. A treadmill? Just goes to show you that exercise can kill! I used to jog a lot until my brother in law (who was my age) died about 12 years ago while out jogging! The high guhru of running (Jim Fixx) also died while out jogging at around 55 years of age or so as well as a local TV newsman in this area in his early fifties. When my bro in law died I quit jogging and haven't since. I go to the rec center three times a week and get on the treadmill and I'm going to quit that. I'll bet if he'd just watched his diet a little more and kept off that thing he'd still be with us....Just my opinion...........JH in Va.

Didn't Elvis die on the toilet? THAT's going to be a tough one to give up. I also know a lot of people who died in their sleep.

On NPR today they had a nice piece about Hayes and his career. Very informative and interesting.

Man, that Shaft is a bad mother...

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 11 Aug 2008 9:03 am

Didn't Elvis die on the toilet? THAT's going to be a tough one to give up. I also know a lot of people who died in their sleep.

Ha! Yeah, he was found by a still-running treadmill. Still - personally, I don't think being a couch-potato is a good way to good health or long life either. But I agree that one needs to be very careful with exercise, especially as one gets older.

Jim Fixx ran an unbelievable amount, and it turned out he had seriously clogged cardiac arteries. That, plus his family history of early death due to heart disease, is asking for trouble, IMO. See the wikipedia summary - this has been micro-analyzed a lot due to his importance to the fitness/health world: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Fixx

I'm not tryin' to sell anybody, but the bottom line for me - keep the weight reasonable, exercise intelligently, but routinely get the cholesterol and ticker checked by a competent cardiologist. I prefer walking or a moderate treadmill pace instead of a hard running pace. I agree that it's possible to push too hard. When in doubt, I chill out until I'm feeling better. But I feel bad if I don't keep myself in reasonable trim and get a moderate amount of exercise.

Ya' know - there's no guarantees no matter what we do. Ain't none of us gonna get outta here alive - a point which has been getting driven home a lot lately.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 11 Aug 2008 11:52 am

Didn't he get fired from South Park recently?

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 11 Aug 2008 12:18 pm

P Gleespen wrote:
Jerry Hayes wrote:Didn't Elvis die on the toilet? THAT's going to be a tough one to give up.
That is a very common cause of heart attack and many people die right there on the john. Very stressful if you are having bowel problems and causes your heart to work very hard. If checking out on the john was something that rarely happened...then it would be one thing, but it is very common. Had a friend of mine die like that a few years ago. Paramedics said that the symptoms of heart trouble will cause some people to feel nauseated and sick to their stomach and they sometimes will go to toilet.....then DRT....dead right there.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 11 Aug 2008 12:42 pm

Didn't he get fired from South Park recently?

He left in 2006. There are multiple versions of what happened. He apparently had a stroke in Jan 06, so that may be the reason. Or maybe it was the flap over the SP Scientology episode. Who knows.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,401321,00.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4804334.stm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11812699/

Hayes was a good actor, to my tastes - a great talent in a lot of ways.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 11 Aug 2008 2:11 pm

Yes, he didn't have problems putting down GOD.
When it came down to Tom Cruise he refused. Anyway, he got fired.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 11 Aug 2008 5:27 pm

Theresa - every story I can find on this says it was Hayes' decision to leave - near as I can tell, he was not "fired", which would mean he was involuntarily dismissed by the producers of the show.

There seems to be some question about whether or not he left because of the stroke, his own unhappiness about the Scientology episode, or pressure from the Scientology hierarchy about it. Having known a couple of people who dabbled with Scientology over the years, I would suspect the latter - but I don't know.

I woulda' never guessed there was this kinda' animosity about Isaac Hayes. Sure, he's been controversial at times, but whew! I suppose just another piece of the American cultural divide.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 11 Aug 2008 6:27 pm

So I guess it's fair to say that Isaac died, not at the "Stairway To Heaven", but at the "Escalator To Heaven"?

With all due respect, I never paid much attention to Isaac or his music; but some of his songs mentioned here I do recognize; and it is a sad day that he has passed on.

After all, I believe like most of us, he was just trying to make the world a better place. As he saw it.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 12 Aug 2008 8:05 am

No matter why he left the show. I did hear it!
My condolences, of course.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 12 Aug 2008 10:03 am

cult pressure.......too bad!

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 12 Aug 2008 12:42 pm

Yes,
That Scientology stuff is out there.