Chart usage

Twayn Williams · Post by **Twayn Williams** » 30 Jun 2008 10:20 am

Who uses charts on the gig?

I do because I have crap for memory and if the band I'm in doesn't rehearse enough for me to come up with a unique part, I need to improvise on the chord changes instead. This means I need a chart of the changes to refer to as I play.

Stuart Legg · Post by **Stuart Legg** » 30 Jun 2008 11:09 am

I saw Buddy using a chart one time and I was so disappointed that I totally lost all confidence in the man. How could he be so ungodly?

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 30 Jun 2008 11:47 am

Stuart Legg wrote:I saw Buddy using a chart one time and I was so disappointed that I totally lost all confidence in the man. How could he be so ungodly?

that was probably just some calculus homework he was doing in between turn arounds. maybe his grocery list.

Twayne do you got one of those clamp on music stand dealys for your guitar? I think they are called the "accomodator" or something...sounds like the name for a reluctant sex toy of sorts.

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 30 Jun 2008 2:45 pm

I do, unless it is just a free-for-all jam.

If I have to "play it just like the CD"....yes

If it is something I have memorized, no.

If it is an arrangement, with fiddle, lead guitar, keyboards I play it like they want it.

An easy way to make charts:
Use BIAB for windows. Audio chord Wizard. give it an MP3, and it will give you a chart, along with the bass lines. Amazing.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 30 Jun 2008 4:08 pm

I guess it's okay for complex songs (that might have a lot of changes). Nothing's more disheartening to me, though, than seeing a band use charts for songs like "Hotel California" or "My Window Faces The South".

Michael Douchette · Post by **Michael Douchette** » 30 Jun 2008 4:29 pm

Donny Hinson wrote:I guess it's okay for complex songs (that might have a lot of changes). Nothing's more disheartening to me, though, than seeing a band use charts for songs like "Hotel California" or "My Window Faces The South".

I don't expect a 50 year old to use one for those, and I fully expect a 20 year old to use one. The youngster isn't going to know those. You have to try to look at things over the perspective of time. We were all young and didn't know squat once, either.

Twayn Williams · Post by **Twayn Williams** » 30 Jun 2008 4:49 pm

Ben Jones wrote:Twayne do you got one of those clamp on music stand dealys for your guitar? I think they are called the "accomodator" or something...sounds like the name for a reluctant sex toy of sorts.

Heh! No, I use a fold-up wire stand. I don't need to keep my eyes glued to the chart, I just need to glance at it every now and then.

Twayn Williams · Post by **Twayn Williams** » 30 Jun 2008 5:05 pm

Michael Douchette wrote:
Donny Hinson wrote:I guess it's okay for complex songs (that might have a lot of changes). Nothing's more disheartening to me, though, than seeing a band use charts for songs like "Hotel California" or "My Window Faces The South".
I don't expect a 50 year old to use one for those, and I fully expect a 20 year old to use one. The youngster isn't going to know those. You have to try to look at things over the perspective of time. We were all young and didn't know squat once, either.

I'm not a kid, I'm 45 and I have 2 degrees in music. I don't know the changes to either "Hotel California" or "My Window Faces the South".

Classical performers often use sheet music as do jazzers. Rock-n-rollers tend not to and I really just don't know anything about Country players.

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 30 Jun 2008 5:09 pm

Ron. Trouble is my BIAB can't settle on a key at times or don't know the difference between a Bmin, Gmaj7, D6 etc. BIAB and Power Tracks, great but not very helpful at times.

Michael Douchette · Post by **Michael Douchette** » 30 Jun 2008 5:20 pm

Twayn, I suppose I should have added that background has a good share in it, as well. Obviously, your musical background hasn't granted you the familiarity with those that mine has. Conversely, I would probably have no clue about some selections that I'm sure you're very well versed in. Vive la difference!

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 30 Jun 2008 5:23 pm

"Charts" can be anything from full blown custom arrangements to just some chords jotted down. There is nothing wrong with using them. A musician should never be questioned for using ANY kind of a chart for ANY reason.

Rick Campbell · Post by **Rick Campbell** » 30 Jun 2008 5:43 pm

What if you're a 49 year old and don't know squat? Does this mean I've got less than a year to learn everything?

I want Billy Ray back!

Stuart Legg · Post by **Stuart Legg** » 30 Jun 2008 5:46 pm

Here is something that you may have not thought of but I use to help out Bo when he is playing with a band and he is not familiar with a lot of their material. I usually get a song list of sorts with enough time before the band starts to look up all the songs via WIFI and Youtube, that Bo doesn’t know real well. I isolate the intro, solo and the ending, which cuts them down to less than a minute each and let Bo listen with the earphones. I have always been able to find on Youtube about any song I want. Then Bo will listen again to the remaining songs on each break. At least he’ll know when the train wreak is coming.

Twayn Williams · Post by **Twayn Williams** » 30 Jun 2008 6:06 pm

Michael Douchette wrote:Twayn, I suppose I should have added that background has a good share in it, as well. Obviously, your musical background hasn't granted you the familiarity with those that mine has. Conversely, I would probably have no clue about some selections that I'm sure you're very well versed in. Vive la difference!

Well said!

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 30 Jun 2008 8:26 pm

I try not to use charts these days. Its weird but I have a hard time giving up the charts once I use them in a band. Even if I have played the tune 1000 times. If I learn the music without a chart I have no problem.
For recording charts really help. It makes it more easy to navigate when they start jumping around to different parts. Also it makes it more easy to decide what my next move is if I am shooting for a complete take on the first listen. If I can nail it on the first take I can avoid the dreaded talking that some people seem to like to do in the studio.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 30 Jun 2008 9:14 pm

Rick,what do you mean? you know Billy Ray did'nt need charts.DYKBC.

Doug Jones · Post by **Doug Jones** » 30 Jun 2008 10:01 pm

I place 3x5 cards on the headstock of my C6 neck for songs I'm not sure about. These are nashville number formats indicating Intro, V, C, Bridge and solo formats. I use a highlighter to cue me to my parts, be it an intro or fill and solo orders. Since few in the crowd pay attention to the steeler and since the cards are small, I feel I get away with it, especially not having some sort of music stand or front mounted clamp on device. I guess it might also boil down to how quick of a study one is or how many standards are in the set-list. Also how much woodshedding or rehearsal time one does alone or with the band before the gig is a factor, too. Since I work with 3 regional acts and occasionally a few local acts it results in large volume of repetoire. When in doubt, use the charts or the volume pedal to back you out, or look to the on-stage musical director for cues. I guess one must also consider the act and to what degree you are expected to know your parts. Most gigs, other than National and established star acts, I imagine, are more lenient when it comes to arrangements and parts playing. I feel for the Drummer and Bassist whose parts are critical to the integrity of the song. The "parts" players have more fudge factor or room to play with. Unless the "star" or musical director is incredibly picky, I've found if you apply your playing in an appropriate and tasty manner, they are just happy to have a steel player on stage!

Bill Cunningham · Post by **Bill Cunningham** » 1 Jul 2008 12:48 am

Charts can help a group that doesn’t have a rehearsed arrangement have much more polished and professional delivery. Donny mentioned “My Window Faces The South”. In bar 4, is the first chord 1 7th or a 5m7? I think Herby Wallace cares what the back up group does here.

Similarly, how about a standard old country tune, “Faded Love”? In bar eight do we play 2m, 2M, or 5 as the first chord? All three choices will work but the group will sound much better if we all follow the chart and all do the same thing!

But the charts only work if you actually follow them. Train wrecks or polish; we have choices.

Howard Tate · Post by **Howard Tate** » 1 Jul 2008 3:33 am

I've always had trouble following charts because of my eyes. I can see but have trouble focusing with any speed. A tip if using Band In A Box to make charts, I find it much easier if I use Roman numerals, it also makes it faster when programming chords to a song. On Johnnie High Country Show Reece always has a music stand with some kind of chart that he consults often. It may just be a set list, I can't tell.

Chuck McGill · Post by **Chuck McGill** » 1 Jul 2008 5:48 am

I had a young songwriter ask me in a session how can
you keep up with the changes in these songs without a
chart? I told him as long as he wrote music that made
sense or remained true to the key, they all tend to go to the same place or at least the options are narrowed down.

Eric Philippsen · Post by **Eric Philippsen** » 1 Jul 2008 6:17 am

I use charts for some tunes with odd changes but try to memorize them as soon as I can. Otherwise, like Bob said, they become a crutch. I have noticed that, as a general observation, that even on the most simple tunes many classically-trained or educated musicians are often lost if they don't have charts. Many of them are, however, killer readers with sightreading abilities that are nothing short of scary! And the opposite is often true, too. That is, put a chart in front of one who doesn't come from a formal background and they're lost. Being able to read music or chord charts is indispensable. I have gotten jobs in situations where there are 10 others auditioning simply because I was the only one who could read the charts.

Ray Montee (RIP) · Post by **Ray Montee (RIP)** » 1 Jul 2008 6:37 am

Started playing at 14, in an adult band, and never saw a chart until I attended the St.Louis Conv. in 1978 and attended a Jeff Newman Seminar.

Those early days must've been during a simpler form of life. We didn't know any better but it all worked out just fine.

Someone would hollar out a song title, someone else, the KEY, and then the tall guy would turn and look at the steel player and say, "YOU, take it, go ahead and kick it off". We'd give 'em three notes and off we'd go.

Things alway seemed to work out fine, sounded good, and it was the challenge 'of not knowing' that made the job interesting. I have to admit, "Charmaign" (sp?) was a tough nut for me to crack but........

You fellows seem to put a full days work into the charts, etc., before you even get to the gig.

When CARL SMITH turned and looked at me, gave me the title and the key, the highly, musically educated fiddle player and accordian player, both looked away and slinked off into the darkened edges of the stage.

WHAT FUN! Carl seemed to be satisfied and came back to me for the intro's on every song he did after the first one. I just knew the Grand Ole Opry talent scout in the audience was going to take me back to Nashville. Oh, he hasn't called yet, but I expect him to, just any day now.

Chuck McGill · Post by **Chuck McGill** » 1 Jul 2008 6:47 am

I don't want anyone to get me wrong about reading. I read sax music in a local swing band. I think all education is good. We have 4 guitar,2 keyboard, violin, Bass and drum teachers in my store. My only regrets about music is not taking advantage of music
theory as a child. What a great way to get ahead.

Dale Hansen · Post by **Dale Hansen** » 1 Jul 2008 6:51 am

I custom build these things to fit the guitar. ($15) (*Square topped guitars only)
(#1)Picture file (#2) Picture file
Two of em' will hold a tab book with ridiculous ease... (#3) Picture file
They'll fold up to fit in your seat. (11.5 overall length) (#4) Picture file
I also provide a small silver binder clip to hold the page, or card to the swing arm.

Mikey's got one.

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 1 Jul 2008 7:11 am

Twayn Williams wrote:
Ben Jones wrote:Twayne do you got one of those clamp on music stand dealys for your guitar? I think they are called the "accomodator" or something...sounds like the name for a reluctant sex toy of sorts.
Heh! No, I use a fold-up wire stand. I don't need to keep my eyes glued to the chart, I just need to glance at it every now and then.

Check it out Twayne. If your looking for a good excuse to drop $40 here it is. This is the "accomodator Jr."...they make a larger one sans the "Jr.". I own one and it has been great, holds fairly well unless you put a phone book up there. disaseembles easily and packs into my stompbox case. I use it for tab and the occasional 'chart' when i am learning a song. I Dont use it on stage (especially since I have only played on stage ONCE). That would be "uncool"

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Chart usage

Chart usage

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