A7 Chord Question

bob Ousby · Post by **bob Ousby** » 30 Jun 2008 3:17 am

I'm going through an E9th workbook and I don't quite get the A7 chord. I have an S10 with standard tuning, what strings or pedal/lever combination do I use to make an A7 chord? This info is needed so that I can play on a rhythm track in the key of D. I've got what's needed for D & G figured out, but don't get the A7. Thanks for any help.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 30 Jun 2008 3:27 am

Fret 5, no pedals, any combination of strings 3,4,5,6,8,9,and 10. The 9th string is the 7th.

Or, If you have an F# to G (string 7) raise, us it in conjunction with the pedals down. open strings, on any combination of strings 3,4,5,6,7,8, and 10. The 7th here would be the raised 7th (F#, raised to te note G) string.

bob Ousby · Post by **bob Ousby** » 30 Jun 2008 4:33 am

Thanks Mike. And after further digging in the workbook (and more coffee), the writer shows that an A7 is achieved also by 10th fret: 3B,4D lever,& 5; etc. I'm working through John Bidasio's E9th workbook.

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 30 Jun 2008 5:42 am

Also 2 more- 3 frets above the open chord (8th fret in this case) with the F lever only using any of the combinations of the std 3 strings (3-4-5/4-5-6/5-6-8/ or 6-8-10). Also a common substitution for a 7th chord is a 5 minor (in this case an E minor) and commonly played with the aforementioned strings 2 frets behind the open chord with the A pedal depressed. This is commonly swapped in and out at the same location with the lever/pedal that lowers the B-Bb string(s). There are others.

bob Ousby · Post by **bob Ousby** » 30 Jun 2008 6:46 am

Thanks Jim!

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 30 Jun 2008 9:26 am

bob Ousby wrote:I'm working through John Bidasio's E9th workbook.

John was my first steel teacher, back in '79

bob Ousby · Post by **bob Ousby** » 30 Jun 2008 10:07 am

He did good! You both did good!! Now as for me, if I can just absorb a sliver...

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 30 Jun 2008 11:14 am

Bob, instead of thinking in terms of specific chords, you should think in terms of chord formations. and pedal positions.

Unless you're using open strings, all the chord positions are movable. The same positions are used for different letter names.

Once you know all your basic pedal positions, you can play on any key, including flat keys, which are infrequently used in guitar oriented (country, blues, rock etc) music. The only difference between playing in D and playing in Eb is which frets you use.

Matthew Prouty · Post by **Matthew Prouty** » 30 Jun 2008 1:15 pm

What Mike said! Change the chords to their relative number V7 and learn where you play the V or V7 chord. You will leap ahead so much faster this way. Once you change a song from letters to numbers you will realize how easy most songs are. If you look at a song and see a Bm you might not know where to find it. But if you see a 6- you will know where to find it in any key.

bob Ousby · Post by **bob Ousby** » 30 Jun 2008 2:58 pm

Matthew...I like that part about leaping ahead much faster but I'm confused about your statement: "change the chords to their relative number V7 and learn where you play the V or V7 chord". Could you explain that? I'd like to know more. Thanks.

Matthew Prouty · Post by **Matthew Prouty** » 30 Jun 2008 3:21 pm

Take the Key of C.

C is the I chord (One Chord)
D is the II chord
F is the IV chord
G is the V chord

If you know how to find all of your I chords and the relative position of the IV, V, VI- (six minor) chords in relation to those I chords then you do not have to transpose, so to speak. (e.g. C=G, F=C, G=D) 1 will always be 1 and 4 will always be 4.

Lets say you are using the 3rd fret A&B C chord. Most often you will refer to this as G fret or C with the pedals down, but its more beneficial to think of this as your A&B 1 chord. In relation to that you have a 1 chord at +5 frets NP and at +8 A&F, there is a 6- right there on that fret A&B root fret (forget about it being G or fret 3) , the IV chord at +5 w/ A&B pedals, V at +7 A&B pedals, etc

Look at the root fret. You have, just with the A&B pedals (or none) the Root, V chord, 6-, and many more.

Who knows what the 6- is, or the V chord, or any of them... If you know where to find a 6- for the key you are in then you have a whole lot less to think about. Once you know where to find them based off of their relative position to the root chord (1 chord) then you can think about the actual common chord name (if you want to).

Once I get on my root fret I no longer think about what key I am in. I only think about positions where the intervals are.

There is a great resource that I highly recommend for anyone who wants to work on this principal, its:

"The Missing Link" by Reese Anderson. This study material will open up doors and allow you to learn how to play, not just copy.

Gabriel Stutz · Post by **Gabriel Stutz** » 30 Jun 2008 3:34 pm

Jim P. - in regard to your minor V substitution suggestion- is that the Vmi of the 7th? That is to say if I was in the key of C and I wanted to sub out the V7 (G7) for a Vmi - would I use the Dmi opposed to the Gmi? Also, does that work on a I7 going to a IV?

Thanks,
Gabriel

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 30 Jun 2008 4:33 pm

Gabriel- it is the 5 minor of the 1- ie.- in C it would be a G minor- works well if you played a C open at the 8th fret- then slide back 2 frets to play a a G minor at the 6th fret with the A pedal then to the F major either played at the 6th fret with the D lever (E-Eb) engaged (swapping the 7th string for the 6th string) or back up to the 8th fret with the A and B pedals engaged.

Gary Shepherd · Post by **Gary Shepherd** » 1 Jul 2008 6:28 am

Maybe it was mentioned but I didn't see it.

In the no pedals position (5th fret for A), the 2nd string is the 7th scale tone. You can lower it a half-step to get the dominant 7th sound.

Also, as Mike mentioned, 12AB is an A7 chord if you also have the G# to F# pull engaged. But not every one has this pull.

A b7 chord can also be used as a 7th in some cases. So move from 12AB to 10AB. It's really a G chord but will sound like A7 if played with the rest of the band.

Try this for a really A to A7 sound.
12AB~~10AB~~10B~~10BD~~10

Delvin Morgan · Post by **Delvin Morgan** » 1 Jul 2008 11:17 am

Now I am confused, Bob O started out in the key of D, where the A7 is V7. Jim P, says substitute vmi for the V7, or Emi. Isn't Emi the V of A? And Ami the V of D?

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 1 Jul 2008 11:26 am

Sorry- my post(s) referred to the key of A- my bad

Gabriel Stutz · Post by **Gabriel Stutz** » 1 Jul 2008 11:26 am

Sorry if I caused any confusion with my question, but thanks Jim. I get it now.

Gabriel

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 1 Jul 2008 12:07 pm

Please don't hesitate to contact me if I can help in any way- I promise to pay more attention

.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 1 Jul 2008 2:21 pm

bob Ousby wrote:Matthew...I like that part about leaping ahead much faster but I'm confused about your statement: "change the chords to their relative number V7 and learn where you play the V or V7 chord". Could you explain that? I'd like to know more. Thanks.

Bob, you are probably familiar with the phrase Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Ti Do.

These words refer to the scale degrees, or numbers of the notes in the major scale. Do is 1 or 8, Re is 2 Mi is 3 etc.

It doesn't matter what key you're in. C, D, F#, Ab. whatever, Do stands for the first note in the scale. Re is the second etc.

You can build a chord on every note in the scale. But unless you start adding (or ins some cases subtracting) extra sharps and flats, the major chords that form the backbone of country, rock and blues music occur in the first, 4th and 5th notes of the scale. Consequently they are called 1, 4 and 5 chords. These are usually written with Roman numerals.

Look at the C scale. The notes are C, D, E, F, G, A, B, and C again. the 4th note in the scale is F, and the 5th is G, and the chords one normally plays in C are the C,F, and G chords.

You can form chords on the other notes too. You get minor chords on 2,3, and 6, and a diminished chord on 7.

If you really want to study the mathematics of all this in depth, I wrote a book on the subject that's published by Mel Bay called "Music Theory in the Real World: A Practical Guide for Today's Musicians." The book is available wherever Mel Bay nooks are sold.
I also wrote a steel guitar supplement, which I send for free to anybody who purchases the book.

bob Ousby · Post by **bob Ousby** » 1 Jul 2008 2:25 pm

Thanks Mike and all the other contributors. And I ordered your book! I'm looking forward to digging into it.

Delvin Morgan · Post by **Delvin Morgan** » 1 Jul 2008 2:37 pm

Bob, Mike's book is fantastic. You won't be sorry. I learned a lot from it.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 1 Jul 2008 3:59 pm

Thanks Delvin. I'm glad the book helped.

Bob, don't forget to send me an E-mail when the book arrives so that I can send you the free steel guitar supplement.

bob Ousby · Post by **bob Ousby** » 1 Jul 2008 4:20 pm

Hi Mike...Thank you. I'll email you when it gets here.

Jeff Scott Brown · Post by **Jeff Scott Brown** » 22 Dec 2012 7:15 am

Mike Perlowin wrote:Fret 5, no pedals, any combination of strings 3,4,5,6,8,9,and 10. The 9th string is the 7th.

Or, If you have an F# to G (string 7) raise, us it in conjunction with the pedals down. open strings, on any combination of strings 3,4,5,6,7,8, and 10. The 7th here would be the raised 7th (F#, raised to te note G) string.

Mike,

I spent time last night struggling with this myself. I am playing a D chord at the 5th fret and need to go to an A7. I ended up going all the way up to the 10th fret to find one. I know this is elementary stuff but I haven't sorted it all out yet. All of the songs I have learned so far have been tabbed out for me or shown to me by my teacher. I am just now trying to map out the fretboard in my head so I can navigate my way around easily. I am still figuring out where everything is and haven't internalized much of this yet. I have been using http://tinyurl.com/e9chordchart and that has been helpful but wasn't helping me solve this particular problem. Your suggestion above is probably going to help me. Thanks a lot!

With my copedent at http://tinyurl.com/jeffsCopedent, are there any options for an A7 that aren't necessarily available on all guitars but are with my copedent?

btw... After reading this thread I just ordered your book. I am particularly interested in the PSG supplement. I think that may be helpful to me.

Thanks again.

JSB

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 22 Dec 2012 9:21 am

At the Fifth fret, you have A7 right there! If you can lower your 2nd to D, it stacks thusly
Root: Strings 4&8
3rd: 3&6
5: 5&10
7: 2 (lowered ½step) &9