SHO BUD Pro1 compared to SHO BUD LDG

Pete Woronowski · Post by **Pete Woronowski** » 2 Jun 2008 5:55 am

Folks, I would sure appreciate your thoughts on this.
I have a gentleman coming over in a few hours to try and sell me a LDG.
My Pro 1 has 3 pedals and 2 knee levers [right knee}
I have just recently gotten serious about pedal steel being a long time gtr player so I don't yet fully appreciate the benefit of the extra knee levers.

Is the LDG that much better and in what way is it something you feel worthwhile of the upgrade?
The LDG has 5 pedals and 4 knee's.

Thanks so much for your time and knowledge, Pete

Sonny Priddy · Post by **Sonny Priddy** » 2 Jun 2008 7:10 am

I Would Go With The LDG Any Time. SONNY.

Michael Dulin · Post by **Michael Dulin** » 2 Jun 2008 7:26 am

Something you might consider- LDG will be heavier,
you'll have to reach across the pad so your hands won't
have as much freedom among other things. Your Pro1 is
easily up graded to additional levers,affordably. MD

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 2 Jun 2008 8:46 am

5 pedals eh? Franklin pedal? and what else. pot metal parts?

Antolina · Post by **Antolina** » 2 Jun 2008 9:23 am

That Pro 1 is easily upgraded for about $100 per lever and about the best you'll do selling it is anywhere from $1000 to maybe $1350 or so. That LDG your considering sells for $1600 to over 2gs depending on condition. If you look at the Intruments for sale section youll get an idea of currnent values. Now you'll be adding another factor in your decision.... unless money isn't an issue.

I'll get some flack for this but IMO, tone wise, I doubt if you'll notice any real difference between the two.

Pete Woronowski · Post by **Pete Woronowski** » 2 Jun 2008 11:02 am

Well I have two steels now, I bought the LDG.
It is in good shape but not 100% perfect, it has a few small dings on the edge under the pad and the rear legs do not lock properly.
Three pedals are hooked up but the other two are in the case.
Restrung it and the set the pedals and knee levers and it stays in tune good,feels quite weird coming from the Pro 1.
Sorry the pot metal term I don't get yet?
Thanks for everyones help! Take Care, Pete

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 2 Jun 2008 11:39 am

Pete, are the knee levers straight, or are they sorta teardrop shaped?

Pete Woronowski · Post by **Pete Woronowski** » 2 Jun 2008 12:54 pm

Hi John, They are tear dropped shaped.
I fixed the rear legs turns out the clutches are the same as an Apex mic stand.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 2 Jun 2008 12:56 pm

Good! Then no pot metal. When the Forum gets fixed, you'll have to post some pics. Is it round-front, or square-front.

Pete Woronowski · Post by **Pete Woronowski** » 2 Jun 2008 1:03 pm

It is a square front so later model I think.
Take Care, Pete

Gary Preston · Post by **Gary Preston** » 2 Jun 2008 4:47 pm

Hi Pete . Strange thing about my Sho~Bud Pro-ll Custom . I bought it new back in 1977 and the only problem that i have had with the ( Pot Medal ) bell cranks is that i sat under it and hit one of the knee levers to hard and broke one of them . This is the only thing that has broken with my guitar . Just a note when i sat under it i hit it on the side not the way your legs hits the levers when you play it . So i was trying to make it go in a direction that they were not meant to go ,,hence they brake ! My Bud is still going going strong after all these years .

Sho~Bud Pro-ll Custom , Emmons LeGrande-lll SD-10 , Two Nashville 400's one Fender Vibrosonic steel amp with 15'' J.B.L. (factory). Telecaster ,Peavey Foundation Bass . Lexicon Processor .

Antolina · Post by **Antolina** » 3 Jun 2008 7:48 am

Pete Woronowski wrote:Well I have two steels now, I bought the LDG.... Sorry the pot metal term I don't get yet? Pete

Welcome to the world of Sho~Bud nuts. Yer now addicted and there's no hope for you now. Don't say we didn't try to warn ya

Pot metal is a cheap alloy casting that can't be welded or soldered. Think of the parts on those early bicycles you had as a youngun'.

Pete Woronowski · Post by **Pete Woronowski** » 3 Jun 2008 8:08 am

Thanks RC and I hear you, I measured my music room last night and I could fit at least 4 more.........:}

Take Care, Pete

Cliff Kane · Post by **Cliff Kane** » 3 Jun 2008 10:51 am

If you like the guitar I wouldn't put too much worry to the pot metal. I have had a pot metal LDG for a few years and have had zero problems with this guitar, and it sounds, plays, and looks great. There is a bias against the pot metal and square front Buds, and I understand the preference for one design over the other, but I wouldn't want to be without mine (I would like to have a Pro II with two-hole pullers to compliment it, though!). I think parts can break or wear-out and any guitar, but my LDG has been really trouble-free. However, I can see a distict advantage in a Pro I in that it is a lighter guitar. For me the best reason to use a single-neck guitar instead of a double-neck guitar is for lighter weight and quicker set-up and tear-down at gigs. My LDG is a heavy guitar! It would be nice to have something lighter for some gigs, like a Pro I.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 3 Jun 2008 2:58 pm

Cliff, I could be wrong, but if the guitar does indeed have teardrop levers, it probably doesn't have pot metal parts. Wish the picture posting function would come back up, cuz I'd love to see the underside of this guitar!

Jon Hyde · Post by **Jon Hyde** » 3 Jun 2008 3:21 pm

I have 75 LDG, wide pedals, teardrop levers, dustcatcher fretboard, double raise/single lower changer. On this guitar, the fingers were what were pot metal. It's nothing to panic about - they sound cool and if you decide to, you might be able to replace them with aluminum. I'm not sure if Jeff Surrat at Show Pro is doing this anymore but I've gotten direct replacements from his shop in the past. The way you identify them is this: if the ball end of the guitar string sits in a slot, it's pot metal, if it sits on a pin, it's aluminum.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 3 Jun 2008 3:23 pm

I'll bet Coop has replacement fingers.

Cliff Kane · Post by **Cliff Kane** » 3 Jun 2008 3:37 pm

Hey John: when Pete said it is a square front cabinet I figured that it is a later model with the Super Pro style parts. I think I've seen pictures of Super Pro era pot metal/square front guitars with teardrop knee levers, and I've always assumed that the straight knee levers were replaced with teardrop levers, but I've never seen a square front Bud with the older pre pot metal undercarriage, unless it had replacement parts. Did they make pre pot metal square front Buds? I know a lot of guitars were "transitional" in the mid/late '70's. My LDG has the claw style headstock, but the triple raise/double lower pot metal mechanics and fingers, and smooth narrow pedals, and it's a square front cabinet. I too would like to see pictures of Pete's guitar. It would be cool to have a sense of how these guitars evolved and transitioned.

Bill A. Moore · Post by **Bill A. Moore** » 3 Jun 2008 4:15 pm

I am fortunate to have a late 70's LDG to play, which belonged to my friend Ted, and it has the straight knee levers. The first time I set it up, I wondered why LKR felt spongy, and didn't do anything, I moved farther and the lever fell off. I went on the web and found Marrs Guitars and bought a replacement pivot?, it was aluminum, and not pot metal like the original. It was too thick to allow full movement, and my friend Pete,(who has a machine shop at my shop), milled some off the top side to allow full travel. Works great! For what it's worth, the other pot metal parts have given no problems, and I don't know how this one was damaged.

Pete Woronowski · Post by **Pete Woronowski** » 3 Jun 2008 5:58 pm

Thanks everyone I am learning a lot from this, the strings sit in a slot so I guess its pot metal as my Pro 1 is and I'm ok with that,I love the gtr and if it ever needs repair it will just be done.
The serial number is 12447.
I still love my Pro 1 and this has convinced me to add the extra two levers to it.
This whole experiance of the pedal steel gtr has just been amazing I haven't been this excited about my music for a long time and I would like to Thank You all so much you folks are really the best!
Take Care, Pete

Jon Hyde · Post by **Jon Hyde** » 3 Jun 2008 6:24 pm

Hey Cliff, Sho Bud had square front cabinets with lots of different kinds of pull systems. I think "super pro" era was the last system and that's the one that had the pot metal undercarriage parts we've been talking about.
Pete, can't wait to see these guitars when the picture option returns to the forum!

Mitch Ellis · Post by **Mitch Ellis** » 3 Jun 2008 7:53 pm

I've heard people say that they have a mid to late 70's LDG and that it has pot metal parts. I met Mr. Lloyd Green at his home, and he wrote a short inscription on my LDG and then signed it. If I remember correctly, he told me that the best Sho-Buds were built between 1971 and 1977. If those yr. models have pot metal parts, it's evedently not a concern to him. If his LDG has pot metal parts, it certainly don't hurt his tone.

Mitch

Lem Smith · Post by **Lem Smith** » 3 Jun 2008 8:14 pm

Cliff, my LDG sounds just like the description of Jon's, and it too doesn't have pot metal underneath, but does have the pot metal fingers. Everything's original on the guitar, which is most likely a 75 model, and it still sounds and plays great.

The guy who lead's the band that I play in also has an LDG with the double raise/single lower, gumby keyhead, original single coil pickup, teardrop knee levers, wide pedals and square front, which would indicate the pot metal changer, and it plays as smooth as butter, plus it is the best sounding steel guitar that I have ever sat down at, and also one of the best I've heard period. Fortunately for me, it's the one I play every Saturday night. My personal LDG sounds great, but this other one absolutely blows it away in the tone department.

Cliff Kane · Post by **Cliff Kane** » 4 Jun 2008 6:23 am

What a great thread....lots of cool info on these Buds. Does anyone know what year Sho-Bud changed the round cabinet to a square cabinet? It sounds like it predates the pot metal bellcranks, but it also sounds like they went to potmetal fingers before the bellcranks and before the Super Pro three-up/two-down changer? Do we know the stages of these changes?

Jon Hyde · Post by **Jon Hyde** » 4 Jun 2008 7:37 pm

Cliff, I'm pretty sure 73 was the last year for the round fronts. You may have seen this before but there is a ton of interesting Sho Bud info compliled here (by Duane Becker)

http://www.planet.eon.net/~gsimmons/shobud/models.html

Pete, now that the ability to easily upload pictures is back - show us your new LDG! Gotta see the top and bottom and changer!!

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