Pete Drake C6th playing?

[Pete Finney]

This topic is inspired by, and in some ways a continuation of, the thread currently going on about Paul Franklin's predictions about the C6th tuning. It's pretty common knowledge that a lot of what we think of as C6th chord sounds can be found on the E9th tuning if you look; besides the examples in that thread I can remember Jeff Newman having an arrangement of "Night Life" on E9 that he used to demonstrate that very thing...

But that (and also the current thread about pedal steel history) got me to thinking about something that I've always meant to pick people's brains about here, and I'm curious enough that I wanted it to have it's own thread that wouldn't distract from the other topics (and doesn't turn into another thread about tuning preferences etc.)

So... there's a lot of classic Pete Drake stuff that I always thought was the epitome of a certain kind of E9th playing, that I later heard he might actually have played on C6th. You certainly don't hear typical "6th" chord forms and there's a fair amount of triad oriented "A and B" pedal sounding stuff. There ARE songs where you hear more typical C6th sounding things ("Peggy Day"on Dylan's Nashville Skyline comes to mind, and some early Drake instrumentals...). But it's the more "E9 sounding" stuff I'm curious about. Can anyone here give any clues as to:

A) How much of the early classic stuff was done on C6th?

B) Special tuning changes, pedals he might have used etc...

C) When he started playing more E9; surely by "Pass Me By" etc. and the early 70's he's playing mostly E9? And how that all evolved...

It's possible I'm completely wrong about all of this of course..

Anyway I'm guessing Paul Franklin (among others here) would have some knowledge about this, being one of Pete's proteges early on (and obviously a keen student of the instrument! )

Anybody?

[Richard Sinkler]

Interesting. I didn't even realize that Pete played C6th. I'm going to have to go back and listen some more to his early stuff.

And, by the way, my favorite tuning is .......

[Cliff Kane]

>>I later found he actually played on C6th. For instance some of the Tammy Wynette stuff, including "Apartment Number 9"<<

Wow, I always thought that was E9, it has that A pedal squeeze sound, and the turn around just feels like an E9 turn around. Very interesting! I wonder why he would not play it on the E9 neck? Great question.

[Gene H. Brown]

When I was first starting out playing steel back in 1959, I was told Pete DRake used an A6th and in fact I used the tuning for quite a while and that's what he used on quite a few of his instrumentals, it's a very nice tuning and I switched over to the C6th and E9th a couple of years after that and I can't rember what strings he was pulling, but it had some nice commercial licks you could get from that tuning for sure.
Gene

[Billy Carr]

I didn't realize the C6th was used on Apt.#9. One reason I still use a high G on the C6th neck is to get the C6th sounds from ABILENE and it has a western swing flavor to me. I believe Pete recorded this with George Hamilton. Let's hear some more!

[Pete Finney]

Like I said, I could be wrong about some of this and I wish I could remember where I first heard it mentioned. But I know I heard it as a general thing about Pete's early (and not so early, apparently) recording and I THINK I remember being especially surprised at hearing "Apartment No.9" mentioned as an example.

Listening to "Peggy Day" on Nashville Skyline there's some obvious "6th" sounding stuff, but some classic Drake signature sounding stuff mixed in too so it it seems plausable enough to me.

There's a few things on the "Tracy Nelson Country"album (probably my favorite Pete Drake playing anywhere) where you can hear some 6th sounding stuff mixed in with what I consider "E9" sounding licks too.

Mike Doucette, you must be able to help us out... Hopefully you've got a great gig tonight and will get to this later!

[Dale Hansen]

That's pretty fascinating about Apt.#9 Pete.
I'm gonna listen for the "give aways", next time I hear it.
By the way, have you checked your PM's?
I dropped you a line a while back.

DH

[Barry Blackwood]

Pete's "sound" as heard on Roy Drusky's 'Anymore' and about a jillion other songs of that era, was, to the best of my knowledge, all done on C6th.

[Joe Miraglia]

I find playing his song " For Pete's Sake" on the 6th. tuning,easier than the E9th. Using the 6 and 7 pedals. G on top. I play it on the B6th. side on the U12. I got to go- playing tonight. Joe
www.willowcreekband.com

[Pete Finney]

Thanks, Barry...

Can you give a few more examples from that era? I know he made his "breakthrough" with Roy Drusky but I don't have any of his stuff. Maybe from the other "jillion" though...!

[John Lockney]

I thought Lloyd Green played on Tammy Wynette's version of "Apartment Number Nine" ?

[Marty Muse]

Pete-

I was thinking the same thing about the noted " Pete Drake style of C6th". I have wondered about this for some time. It seems most of his stuff was done on E9th, but certainly some could have gone either way. Listen to the way he plays the chord progression on Lay Lady Lay. It seems to me that was played on the C neck and then he switched over to the E9th on the chorus. Could be wrong but I think it's an interesting topic. You see a lot about players playing 6th sounding stuff on the E9th but rarely going the other way. It seems the older guys who started playing without pedals have the ability to play the same things on different tunings quite readily. Thanks for bringing this up.

[Michael Douchette]

Ok, guys. I have to get in here. Lloyd played on D-I-V-O-R-C-E. That was the one session that Pete couldn't make, so Billy Sherrill got Lloyd.

I stood over Pete's shoulder and watched him play Apt # 9. E9, period. He knew VERY little C6.

And tonight, I have the best New Years gig I could have; home with my lovely missus, without one of the kids in the house! YIPPEE!!!

[Tony Glassman]

There's a few things on the "Tracy Nelson Country"album (probably my favorite Pete Drake playing anywhere).....

I've got to agree with you, Pete. Though not flashy, the steel fills on "Sad Situations" are some of his tastiest and most soulful.

[Pete Finney]

Thanks Michael, I knew you'd come through!

And one certainly can't argue with this:

I stood over Pete's shoulder and watched him play Apt # 9. E9, period.

But... while I'll take your word for sure on that tune, and I doubt anyone would say that Pete was ever a "hot" C6th player in the way of Emmons, Chalker or Charleton etc., he clearly did play C6th (or other 6th tuning) on a lot of sessions at least early on (I remember him saying as much in an interview). And there are at least a few tunes that I know of where it sounds to me like he's playing a 6th tuning AND playing some of his signature licks that I always associated with E9th. That's what I'm so curious about: how that evolved, and what other well known tunes MIGHT have been done on a 6th tuning. As I said I'm pretty sure that his later well known stuff was mostly E9.

And Marty, you definitely get my drift! Great observations...

[Andy Greatrix]

Was that Pete Drake playing C6th on "little old dime", a Jim Reeves song?

[Ernest Cawby]

If you want to hear some good Pete Drake get Hal Kennts gospel albom with pete on steel. some of the best work out there, he used a Lesle speaker on that one and sounded just like an organ.

ernie

[Herb Steiner]

Hey Pete, best of 2008 to ya!

I believe "For Pete's Sake" is on C6. Also, a good example is on Jimmy C. Newman's "Alligator Man" I just heard the other day on XM. It sounds like pedals 6 and 7 to me.

It could also have been on Rusty and Doug's "Diggy Liggy Lo." I can't remember which tune, but the solo was definitely Pete playing in his "For Pete's Sake" style, which I think owes a lot to Cajun-style steel playing.

Pete Drake also recorded a beautiful Hal Rugg tune, "My Bluest Day," on his Forever album, one of my favorites.

[Pete Finney]

Hey Herb, right back at ya!

I've been listening to some early Pete Drake stuff today, instrumentals and some Roy Drusky (found some on itunes)...

It's interesting that you say Cajun influenced; I was gonna say he plays some almost Ralph Mooney sounding stuff (on what sounds like a 6th tuning) and it occurs to me that there's common ground between the two (I am not that familiar with that era of cajun/country with steel though I've heard some). It also seems like it was around ROUGHLY the same time that Mooney was really coming on strong and I'm wondering if that influence MIGHT have run both ways(?).


Clearly by avoiding the 6th tone in chords and using pedals 6 and 7 (as you point out) you can play a lot of what we think of as E9th sounding stuff on C6th, and I still wonder how/when that evolved into Pete's well known E9 style. At least as late as '69 he seemed to have still been playing a "hybrid" style of C6th some of the time.

Not of earthshaking importance obviously, but I think it's interesting in terms of pedal steel history. At least for Pete Drake fans, and I for one love his playing on many, many, records.

[Marty Muse]

Here's a quote from the Guitar Player Magazine interview. It can be viewed at : http://www.calsharp.com/music/Pete.html

"I guess what really got me going was the "Pete Drake style on the C6th tuning. When I first came up here everybody thought it was square, so I quit playing like that and started playing like everybody else. Then one night on the Opry, just for kicks, I went back to my own style for one tune behind Carl and Pearl Butler. Roy Drusky was on Decca then, and he came up to me and said, 'Hey, you've come up with a new style. I'm recording tomorrow and I want you with me.' So I cut this session with him, and the word kind of got out that I had this new style ( actually, it was the same thing I'd been playing for years in Atlanta, but it was new in Nashville). That month I did 24 sessions, and it's been like that ever since. that was in the middle of 1960, and that first record was ' I Don't Believe You Love Me Anymore.' A number one record. Then I recorded ' Before This Day Ends' with George Hamilton, and it, too, became number one. I just couldn't do anything wrong for a long time."

So there are a couple of examples, from the horse's mouth, about his C6th style. It's not exactly clear to me what stands out as being really distinctive about this style. His style on the E9th is very distinctive. Any more examples of this?

[Franklin]

In the early 60's Pete started his career with the "For Pete's Sake" C6th style. His sound was new. And because most of the Opry acts (of which he was working staff at the time) wanted it on their recordings, there are hundreds of hits archived for us to sift through with him playing the C6th tuning.

Carl and Pearl Butler's "Don't Let Me Crossover,
Cowboy Copas's "Alabam" are two great examples.

Pete had the standard Emmons C6th setup. Because he wasn't a Jazz guy he raised his top G to A instead of the G to G# like Buddy.

He could hit strings 1, 2, & 3 along with the 2nd string raise and emulate the moves possible with the A & B Emmons split sound of the E9th.

If you want to hear how well he mastered the tunings beauty? listen to his C6th instrumental, "For Those That Cry". This is one of the most haunting and emotional melodies I have ever heard.

Although Pete could play "B. Bowmans Hop", "Panhandle Rag", "Boot Heel Drag", and those kinds of standard swing tunes, he found no interest in it. Instead his desire was rewarded in creating a sound for the singer. He created a commercial sound that worked well for him over many years on a very stereotyped tuning. He switched to primarily E9th in the mid 60's. He created many of the cliche signature licks we have to play today, during those Sherril years.

For those that don't know, Billy Sherril produced a who's who list of Country Music legends. Among some of the most famous are Jones, Wynette, Charlie Rich, David Houston, and Barbara Mandrell. Pete was more than his main steel guitarist. Pete was also his session leader. Back in those days the session leader hired the band for the producer. Pete's contribution to the legendary A team was acknowledge recently. Along with Harold Bradley and the rest were recently inducted as a studio band into the Musicians Hall of Fame. They are known as the now infamous "A Team".

For me, there's nothing as impressive as a great imagination on the C6th tunng.

PF

[Marty Muse]

Thanks for the great info on Pete's particular C6th tuning, Paul. That makes a lot of sense as to how he used it. I'll check these recordings out.

[Franklin]

I should have previewed and edited that last paragragh on the A team. Its a hard read.

Happy New Year

PF

[Donny Hinson]

One of the very best examples of Pete's C6th style, IMHO, was on a Red Sovine song called "Brand New Low" (which was mis-titled "Brand New Lou" on some pressings). This style made Pete, IMHO. But to this day, no one (but me, occasionally) ever uses it.

I've even heard that Floyd Cramer based his signature piano-playing style on these types of steel licks.

[Pete Finney]

Thanks, Paul... it doesn't seem to me like your post needed editing at all, that's some great info. Knowing about the high G to A change explains a lot.

All these examples of Pete's C6th playing are great too, thanks everybody...