My Fingers Were Dirty

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 12 May 2005 3:46 pm

I was chomping away at an apple held in my bar hand, moments after I had been practicing on the frypan for a half hour or so. I did not have to realize that I am a slob (since I already knew this), but did realize that the fingers of my bar hand were smudged with black residue (from sliding up and down the strings), and that my piggy self had not washed his hands before snacking.

What, chemically, is this black residue?

Is it dangerous in any way if ingested (e.g., like eating lead paint chips)?

[This message was edited by Jeff Au Hoy on 12 May 2005 at 04:48 PM.]

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 12 May 2005 3:55 pm

What tuning were you using prior to ingesting said apple? Tab available?

Relax Jeff, think about all that Ray Charles accidentally ate in his life, and he's still aliv... um, never mind.

------------------
Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association
[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 12 May 2005 at 05:02 PM.]

George Rout · Post by **George Rout** » 12 May 2005 4:13 pm

I think the residue is called lakanookie!!!

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 12 May 2005 4:16 pm

Doc, you know I don't believe in tab... can I still be saved?

[This message was edited by Jeff Au Hoy on 12 May 2005 at 05:17 PM.]

Gary Boyett · Post by **Gary Boyett** » 12 May 2005 4:22 pm

This just sound like a typical case of chemical reaction. Your body puts out an acid in your sweat thus causing a reaction to the type of strings. Very similar to a ring on a finger turning green. My best thought would be to wear heavy gloves!
The heavey gloves (welders gloves are the best) will help you hold onto the bar better too.

You may start a new trend while your at it.
The new Au Hoy method would be all over the internet by the end of the week.

Either that or you can just wash your hands once in a while.

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 12 May 2005 5:02 pm

I remember getting that also, and I think I was playing with nickel strings. I never seem to get it using phosphor bronze strings.

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 12 May 2005 5:16 pm

Hmmm, a banana eating an apple?![This message was edited by Ron Whitfield on 12 May 2005 at 06:17 PM.]

Paul Arntson · Post by **Paul Arntson** » 12 May 2005 8:14 pm

But seriously folks, that stuff is just metal powder in microscopic particles off the steel and a little off the aluminum body, probably. No danger. It will taste terrible before it gets to toxic quantities.
I would worry more about getting apple juice on the aluminum guitar. It will make a tiny etch and leave a "stain". But it won't be toxic to the guitar.
The apple juice should make it easier to wash off your hands. 30 years ago I had a job as an electrician and our hands would be dark gray/black from aluminum conduit. We used liquid dishwashing detergent and no water. Then a spoon of granulated sugar for an abrasive. Then when all the black was rubbed off our hands and converted into gray sludge, warm water would dissolve the whole mess. Presto! Clean hands. But we didn't eat an apple while we were doing that...

Don Kona Woods · Post by **Don Kona Woods** » 12 May 2005 9:57 pm

Jeff,

First of all did you check to see if you had clean hands before you started playing and eating?

Remember what your momma told you.

I have not noticed this problem on the Mainland before maybe it is indigenous to Hawaii, you know something to do with lava dust!!

Aloha,
Don[This message was edited by Don Kona Woods on 12 May 2005 at 11:02 PM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 12 May 2005 11:19 pm

Doc, you know I don't believe in tab... can I still be saved?

Switch to Coke Pepsi and or fruit juices,
then go to confession,
you may yet be saved!

Before mankind knew about germs and chemicals,
the human race still lived on.

Hatters went mad, and the occasional plague to be sure...

So I guess you will live on too,
after eating your fair share of dirt.
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 13 May 2005 at 12:22 AM.][This message was edited by David L. Donald on 13 May 2005 at 01:52 PM.]

Denny Turner · Post by **Denny Turner** » 13 May 2005 1:20 am

It seems like most things I've dearly loved since I was very young, involved toXic stuff. Lead paint, solvents, MEK, acetone, fuels, metals, anti-fouling paint, etc etc. In tHe 1970's more an more folks started becoming aWare and Conserned about hAndLing such things caRelessly, buT i Didin't wurry two much abOut it excEpT klEnIng the mud out uv my finGernaILs before it got too haRD to get OUt. At 58 yeasr olde, iT duzn't seemed to eFFecT mE tHat i CaN teLL sO FaR. Awl ya gOTtA dO iS ta kEEp yer HAnds outA yur moWTh an dO'nt hANdle Ffoood tu eAT iT whilE theyZE DuRtY cause aFtEr aWHiLe yu cA'nt tELL it wHeN iT tAsTeS bAd.

Alaho,
DT~

Randy Reeves · Post by **Randy Reeves** » 13 May 2005 5:50 am

yeah. what denny said.

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 13 May 2005 6:38 am

Gee Denny...wut an ejukation yu mus hav ! I only went tu grade 3 an had ta quit bekas my pop was still there !

[This message was edited by George Keoki Lake on 13 May 2005 at 07:40 AM.]

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 13 May 2005 7:53 am

No "kamayan" for you (ask Bobby I.).

Don Kona Woods · Post by **Don Kona Woods** » 13 May 2005 11:03 am

What a gang of responders --
We can make havoc of anything!

Denny Turner · Post by **Denny Turner** » 13 May 2005 1:36 pm

OOPS; Sorry; I had been washing some race car parts last night and was eating a peanut butter sandwich before I washed my hands ...and didn't notice myself zoning out there.

For real though, Jeff brings up an interesting subject. I've seen a number of Pickers over the years with different exagerated wet / acidic body chemistries that react with the guitars they play and handle. And even with Pickers without such body sweat, I 've seen metal leaching not unlike what Jeff described.

In the extremes, acidic sweat can wreek havoc with guitars. I loaned my old 335 to a HUGE guy in our band about 10 years ago, ...and in ONE NIGHT his ocean of sweat got into "every" nook and cranny on the top side of the guitar and tuners ...and even though I wiped the guitar down at the end of the night, the next day I opened the case and wet "aromatic" air rolled out of it, ...and the strings, bridge and tuners had already amazingly corroded to the point I had to disassemble the guitar and clean it!

Unless Jeff got his apple from the same place Snow White did, ...I would imagine that a noticeable black residue in Jeff's case would likely be mostly aluminum oxide powder from the frypan, mixed with other metals' leaching, commercial oils, air salts, polish and sweat, that somehow worked it's way onto his hands, ...potentially in a number of ways I can SWAG at. Even though the toxicity of aluminum upon brain function has been in the spot-lights and side-lights for the last 15 years or so, I WOULD RATHER TRUST AN ASSESSMENT FROM RICK AIELLO AND HIS QUALIFIED WIFE to suggest if such casual exposure to aluminum oxide would be toxic over an extended time. (Or if Turner finally got the flashback he's been diligently / patiently looking forward to for for 40 years!)

Aluminum oxide is the only metal powder I have ever noticed that sometimes gets onto my own hands when I handle aluminum allot or "forcefully" (cleaning etc). BUT, every time I play allot for a few hours, there is a BIG noticeable difference in the taste of cigarette smoke hitting my tongue. It is a very sweet copper taste that obviously comes from metal leaching onto my fingers. (The same thing happens when I handle copper allot). I have often thought that it might be getting to my tongue by leaching into my blood stream at my finger tips, although I suspect it's probably from sticking my fingers in my mouth to wet & massage my finger calouses.

I would also suspect that the dielectrics of playing an electric guitar might also have something to do with metal working it's way onto our hands, ...and whether into our blood-streams; Another subject for Rick Aiello's expert input.

Hmmmmm.... I wonder if metal leaching might explain why so many of us guitarists get "goofy" over the years!

That sure would relieve a bunch of Moms and Dads from genetic and upbringing guilt! Hey Mom, ...it wasn't the moonshine, Dad's MEK, nor autism after all!

Aloha,
DT~
[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 13 May 2005 at 02:49 PM.]

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 13 May 2005 2:34 pm

I'm with Paul A. ... its just "string dust".

Plain strings are just tin coated plain steel.

That tin is gone after a couple swips with your steel bar ... so basically, every time you run the bar over the strings ... you are filing them down.

If you took an electron microscope and looked at steel guitar strings ... it would look like the string had of "flat top" hair-cut.

That black mess ... it happens to me, too ... but it's only really noticable to any extent ... after putting new plain strings on ...

As far as aluminum and aluminum oxide toxicity ... anyone who has ever used a piece of standard sandpaper ... exposes themselves to more aluminum oxide than a lifetime of "frypan handling" would do.

I did a Medscape/Medline search (using my wifes password

) ... and found very little.

Mostly dental stuff ...

As far as sweat reacting with metal ...

The strangest thing I ever saw ... was a girl in my chemisty class years ago ... would develop "black residue/stain" from wearing gold rings/chains when she was on her menstrual cycle.

One of my wife's colleagues ... can tell when she is ovulating ... because she develops eczema under her gold ring.

------------------

Aiello's House of Gauss


My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield

Denny Turner · Post by **Denny Turner** » 14 May 2005 3:06 am

Thanks Rick. That answers some wondering I've had over the years similar to Jeff's question. (And I HAVE been quite careless with toxics for many years!).

(Hey Mom, ...the ball's back in yer court on the "goofy" thang!)

But what puzzles me now is that I have NEVER noticed any residue on my hands from PLAYING even MANY hours at a time countless times (other than tasting it as previously said); And I've been playing guitar for 46 years, slide with a metal slide and bars for 36 years, and Steel for 13 years! So why would some folks get residue on their hands while others don't!?

Aloha,
DT~
[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 14 May 2005 at 04:08 AM.]

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 14 May 2005 3:51 am

Body chemistry is a "weird thang".

All my students were required to wear gloves in lab. We had non-latex ones for the folks that were allergic.

There were always a few ... who within minutes of putting on the gloves ... turned the latex a orange/brownish color.

There was no allergic reaction ... just a drastic change in color ... and when they removed the gloves ... the hands were stained that same color.

Another example ... some folks skin is more "conductive" than others ...

I had one kid make it to the State Science Fair ... he built a glove that would measure Electrodermal Activity.

I had some real bright students ... and then some ... well ...

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 14 May 2005 5:32 am

would develop "black residue/stain" from wearing gold rings/chains

That's because you had them on her too tight...

"Alchemy De Sade 101"

Denny Turner · Post by **Denny Turner** » 15 May 2005 5:12 am

Velly intlesting; 'specially the rings and chains.

Tanks.

Aloha,
DT~
[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 15 May 2005 at 06:12 AM.]

Howard Tate · Post by **Howard Tate** » 15 May 2005 3:49 pm

Is your will up to date? When I change strings on the steel or six string, I usually get black residue the first few times I play on them. Thats with nickel wound strings, I don't know about stainless steel.

------------------
Howard, 'Les Paul Recording, Zum S12U, Vegas 400, Boss ME-5, Boss DM-3
http://www.Charmedmusic.com