Do the Words Count?

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 13 Jul 2006 12:10 pm

Got it!

Well, I actually got it the first time-as I have read many of your posts-and I know that you would never believe that song lyrics should always appeal to the lowest common denominator.

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Mark
[This message was edited by Mark Eaton on 13 July 2006 at 01:12 PM.]

Stephan Miller · Post by **Stephan Miller** » 13 Jul 2006 1:02 pm

The Pips minus Gladys Knight-- pretty sure that was the Richard Pryor Show. That was brilliant. If Gladys had been there nobody'd remember it.

Do the words count? Hell yeah...though they can wear out their welcome faster than music alone. And sometimes song lyrics are of a higher quality than the accompanying music-- which can make the music sound better than it is.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 13 Jul 2006 4:55 pm

Yeah lyrics matter [in a song that has them].

I work hard to get the lyrics right.

I just played a wedding recently, and I split my playing between acoustic guitar/singing and steel. One of my big songs that I sing is
"Riding My Thumb To Mexico" [Johnny Rodriguez].

I could see people [audience] mouthing the words as we were doing the song.

Can't imagine what a disaster it would have been if I screwed up the lyrics. This song moves right along. There isn't a lot of breathing room.

Yeah, I think lyrics are as big a part of a song as the music. The phrasing, words, message, AND music, all make the song what it is.

You always hear this about Bob Dylan:

"He can't sing; what an awful voice."

Yeah, but his lyrics, coupled with that voice, and his great folk guitar playing, made Dylan what he turned out to be: BOB DYLAN.

Love him or not. All 3 aspects worked to make that guy one of the best ever. His lyrics carried him 1st. His pretty good guitar playing 2nd. And, 3rdly, that undeniable, recognizable voice capped it off.

Dylans "grating" voice, coupled with his "in your eye" lyrics was unbeatable. C'mon.

If anyone is the epitome of the importance of lyrics, this is the man.

But: JMHO

Paul King · Post by **Paul King** » 14 Jul 2006 3:39 am

I found a new radio station out of the Dallas, Texas area. I have found myself hearing the lyrics I did not hear several years ago. I remember as a teenager listening to Junior Knight playing on television one day. He was the steel player for Dewey Groom, his father-in-law, and the Longhorn Ballroom Band. My mother walked in the room and started chewing me out for what I was listening to. They were playing the Johnny Paycheck song "I Turned Out To Be The Only Hell My Momma Ever Raised". I never heard a word to the song, just Junior Knights steel playing. Yes, you can hear a song without hearing the lyrics. I did get to tell Junior Knight about that a couple years ago at the Texas show and he got a kick out of that story.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 14 Jul 2006 6:56 am

Great singing is not word dependant.

My "spanish" is really filtered french..
so far from functional, just occasional.

But I sure can't stop listening to
Gloria Estafan's Mi Tierra.
I have ideas what it means, but don't know
and don't care ; she sounds lovely.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 16 July 2006 at 03:47 AM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 14 Jul 2006 7:46 am

Mi Tierra (my land, or my homeland)

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 16 Jul 2006 2:50 am

Pretty close to French, ma terre my land.
That much I got, and things like
the wish of my hear etc.

Still if I didn't understand word one,
I would still LOVE this album in a big way.
But it would be even better if I DID understand every word.

There are plenty of english language songs,
I can't figure the ALL words decades after the fact..

Jim Gorrie · Post by **Jim Gorrie** » 22 Jul 2006 3:00 am

. . . now, what about The Viscounts 1961 hit "Who Put The Bomp" ? ?

". . Who put the bomp in the bomp she bomp she bomp,
Who put the ram in the rama lama ding dong. ."

. . don't know if I've spelled it all correctly ~ but that's how it sounded to me ! !

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 22 Jul 2006 4:37 am

Well, those words are hugely important to the song, arent' they? I mean, without those words, the song would be nothing. I can't imagine anyone ever wanting to record an instrumental version of it. (Actually, now that I think of it, it might not be too bad after all...)

c c johnson · Post by **c c johnson** » 22 Jul 2006 4:40 am

Lyrics matter especially when you are backing a singer. If it is a tender love ballad you most certainly don't want to do a bunch of dipsy doo in the cracks. Let your fills compliment the singer and the lyrics.BTW, I was the only kid in my class that could not play steel guitar rag until I went to CA and heard a fellow in Cliffie Stones aggrevation sing the words. " I've rambled around, seen many a town, etc" CC

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 22 Jul 2006 6:56 am

I once read a record company person describing what sells in the different pop genres. He said it was rhythm and hooks in rock and R&B, but in country music the words are hugely important. This was before the ‘80s shift of country to rock-country.

Like someone said above, in rock a hook phrase or two may be important, but hanging on every word is rarely important. A lot of the best rock has the words down in the mix where you can’t quite make all of them out. And it sounds good to me that way. Just some poetic phrases seep through here and there. It can be a sort of surreal wash, where the vocals are just another instrument. A lot of rock, if you see all the words printed out, it looks stupid. Dylan came from folk, where like country the words count. But his songs usually sound better when some good musicians give life to the music along with the words. The Beatles placed a lot of importance on the words; but they put good music with them – part of their popularity. The Stones? Couldn’t tell you the words to a single song, but they had lots of good hook lines. REM is a classic example of lyrics that are mostly part of a wash just below the level where you can make them all out. Occasional words and phrases come through that sound cool, but I have no idea what any of their songs are about.

The worst music these days is the singer-songwriter stuff on college radio stations. The words are stupid the-world-is-so-horrible-and-I’m-such-a-pathetic-victim anxty drivel, and the music sounds like they are making it up as they go. The words seem to be the most important part. It all sounds like the words were written first, then someone with little musical background or talent made up some random folk-rocky semi-melody as an excuse to turn bad prose into a “song.” Horrible stuff. Give me the incoherent Stones or REM any day. You can use your imagination and think it’s profound.

Blues have sparse poetic lyrics that count. Simple but effective. Son House could paint a whole visual and emotional picture in a few short lines: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Well, late one ev’nin’
I went out on the outskirts of town.
Oh, late one ev’nin’
I went out on the outskirts of town.
You know I chose me a seat,
An’ I watched that evenin’ sun go down.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You know from this first verse that every word of this song is going to be drenched in the most profound sadness.

Or Elmore James: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The sky is cryin’;
Look at the tears runnin’ down the street.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But the powerful music gives impact to the simple words. The best country music is like that too.

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Student of the Steel: Zum uni, Fender tube amps, squareneck and roundneck resos, tenor sax, keyboards

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 22 July 2006 at 03:25 PM.]

Dayna Wills · Post by **Dayna Wills** » 24 Jul 2006 1:40 pm

YES! To the audience. In my experience, most players are players first and listen to chord changes. Then, if they take up singing, they listen to the words and some have said that it takes them forever to learn the words. Whenever you do an audition, they tell you to start and end with an uptempo number, however the ballads are the songs that 8 times out of 10 the people remember and they know the words to. Ever watch a concert and see the audience singing along? Even Oprah does it. They know the words! Woirds count!

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Mike Shefrin · Post by **Mike Shefrin** » 24 Jul 2006 5:58 pm

Of course lyrics are important!!!
The title of my favorite country tune is
"If your phone doesnt ring...thats me"

Webb Kline · Post by **Webb Kline** » 24 Jul 2006 6:13 pm

I know this sounds crazy, but my son is invited to play drums and give his input in many writing projects because one of the first things he does is ask to see the lyric sheet. Then he confirms his interpretation with the lyricist before contemplating what he is going to play.

Of course this approach naturally gets him gigs where the lyrics are important to the artist (mostly prog rock). But, what he plays is determined by the message of the song.

Jake then seeks to paint a rhythmical picture of the song which often takes it into an entirely different beat than the writers may have imagined. Almost invariably the other musicians draw their inspiration from his ideas and some great music happens.

I'm working right now on my first professional project with him and it is a kick. All of us in the project are finding ourselves approaching the songs the same way he does and the results are really exciting.

Of course, we're all probably weird as I know of no one else who does it this way. How often does anyone really care anymore? They mostly just throw a bunch of sexual innuendos together and call it a wrap. But, it is certainly fun doing it this way. It has been a boon to my creativity.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 25 Jul 2006 12:44 am

Remember the big hulabaloo over just what The Kingsmen were singing about in "Louis, Louis"?

..."She's a fine little girl...waitin' for me"...

Oh well, that's as much as I can recall now.

A lot of us immoral teens swore we heard some "dirty" lyrics in this song.

To this day, yet, I don't think it's ever been agreed upon just what those mystery lyrics were/are. [This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 25 July 2006 at 01:52 AM.]