Is the Day setup an eastern thing?

Lyle Clary · Post by **Lyle Clary** » 18 Jun 2005 5:43 pm

I will have to disagree wih Per Berner in an earlier thread. I can roll my ankle to the outside without moving my knee to that side. It is impossible to rotate my ankle to the inside without moving my knee to the inside. Therefore Day is for me. Am I a freak or what? Dont answer that.

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1969 ZB Custom D10, BMI S10,Peavy Musician Mark III, 15 Inch Black Widow[This message was edited by Lyle Clary on 18 June 2005 at 06:44 PM.]

Steve Hackney · Post by **Steve Hackney** » 18 Jun 2005 7:19 pm

Lyle, If your a freak, so am I. My ankles and knees work the same way.

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They call me Mongo.

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 19 Jun 2005 3:45 am

Me too! "Day' for me!

Russ

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 19 Jun 2005 7:05 am

First off, this is not an attack on anyone. I see the reason "it's easier to bend my ankle" a certain way (by both Emmons and Day players), and I respect that. But, I just sat down at my guitar for 15 minutes, and just used my feet (no picking or barring to distract me) and I found that I could go from the Day setup to Emmons quite easily without my knee moving any more than with the Day setup. This is probably because I bend my ankle quite often while using the B & C pedals (I play the Day setup, so C is the number 1 pedal). Since I believe that your pedal technique is all in the way you use your ankle, your knee should not enter into the picture. Sure it will move slightly, but not enough to hamper your playing by activating knee levers. Now, there might be people with physical problems that make one way easier, and I'm not talking about them.

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Carter D10 9p/10k, NV400

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 19 Jun 2005 11:20 am

I don't get it. I use the Emmons setup and move my ankle both ways. If I used the Day setup I'm sure I would also be moving my ankle both ways. Playing the minor with just the A pedal seems a little easier with the Emmons setup.

Richard Gonzales · Post by **Richard Gonzales** » 20 Jun 2005 3:00 am

Dave- When my foot is at the A pedal in the 3rd position, my ankle can move both ways also. It is when the A pedal is in the 1st position my ankle has a hard time moving to the left. Hitting the C pedal in the 1st position is easier for me as it is usally the C,B combo and no need to rotate to the left. This is why I prefer the Day setup.

Justin B. French · Post by **Justin B. French** » 20 Jun 2005 6:04 am

Hi Jerry, I use the Emmons setup here in Virginia Beach, VA. We are about as far east as you can get, arn't we? Nice thread. Justin

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Carter D10, Fender 400.
Nashville 1000 & 112
Goodrich LDR,
DigiTech RP-100,
Peterson VS-II

[This message was edited by Justin B. French on 08 July 2005 at 01:55 AM.]

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 20 Jun 2005 7:42 am

Okay, Richard, I see what you are saying - with your foot further to the left in the Emmons position, it is harder to turn your ankle to the left. I think most people with the Emmons setup have their A pedal set a little higher than the B pedal, which makes it easier to turn your ankle to the left. I can't find anything wrong with the Day setup, but since I started on Emmons, I don't see any point in changing. It really seems to be mostly what you get use to when you start out. I can't see any real advantage or disadvantage to either one.

Gary Shepherd · Post by **Gary Shepherd** » 20 Jun 2005 8:54 am

I've switched back and forth so many times, it doesn't matter anymore.

My Carter has Emmons pedals.

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Gary Shepherd

Carter D-10

www.16tracks.com

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 21 Jun 2005 5:51 pm

David, that is my point exactly. The ankle just needs to be "trained" to bend in both directions. Adjusting the pedals and knee levers also helps (actually, I feel it is necessary). I started out playing Emmons for about 6 months until I had some levers added to my ZB and the guy who worked on my guitar talked me into switching. It probably wouldn't have made any difference in my playing if I would have stayed with the Emmons setup.

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Carter D10 9p/10k, NV400

Mike Hoover · Post by **Mike Hoover** » 21 Jun 2005 6:54 pm

Interesting Thread, I just started trying to learn to play steel, been bass player 45 years. Real good friend plays Day, and I ask Bryan if I should go Day or Emmons, he said Emmons, for the reason more instruction material. Another friend Rudy said he played Day because his ankles moved that way easier. At the stage I am at I could probably go either way, but the Emmons setup seems agreable to my body. Being a bass player this may be an imposible task, but if I don't try it I will never know. Been at it about 1 & 1/2 months so far.

Mike

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 22 Jun 2005 5:05 pm

The statement "there's more instructional material" for the Emmons setup is hogwash. Both tunings have the same pedals and levers. They're just arranged differently. If you can think of your A pedal being in position 3 instead of 1, you can use any instructional material. Take a pencil and write in the pedal number that matches your setup if you get confused.

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Carter D10 9p/10k, NV400

Richard Gonzales · Post by **Richard Gonzales** » 22 Jun 2005 5:41 pm

Another reason I like the Day setup is when I first started with Emmons setup my LKL
(F lever) had to be too far to the left in order not to engage the lever when hitting the A pedal. Using the Day setup the LKR (F lever)never interferes when hitting the A pedal. Although I could play the Emmons setup, the Day setup is more comfortable for me!

Roger Edgington · Post by **Roger Edgington** » 23 Jun 2005 6:06 am

Around here it's mostly Day, but this is Day country. I get along better with Emmons set up but I am a Day fan for sure.

Lynn Kasdorf · Post by **Lynn Kasdorf** » 23 Jun 2005 10:54 am

This is really OT for this thread but it is about Jimmy Day's setup.

Looking at b0b's tunings page (http://www.b0b.com/tunings/stars.html#E9jd)
...I see that Jimmy Day did not lower the E's! I find this rather astounding. I should think that maybe he would skip the E raise, since some folks do this with a slant anyway. But I can't imagine playing without being able to lower the E's.

Of course, I LOVE Jimmy Day's playing- he managed to get along just fine without this change, but I figured it was just about the single most common lever.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 23 Jun 2005 11:15 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Looking at b0b's tunings page ( http://www.b0b.com/tunings/stars.html#E9jd )
...I see that Jimmy Day did not lower the E's!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Jimmy lowered his 8th string E to D# on LKL. That lever is very similar to the standard Sho-Bud Maverick lever. It combines the "D" and "E" levers into one. I imagine that Jimmy used the 8th string lower as a "feel stop" for the D note on the second string, but I don't know for sure.

Lloyd Green is another master who doesn't lower his high E string. It can be thought of as an "optional" change if you have a minimalist mindset. It isn't strictly necessary.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6)[This message was edited by b0b on 23 June 2005 at 12:15 PM.]

Alan Harrison · Post by **Alan Harrison** » 24 Jun 2005 5:25 pm

I play the Day setup because my first pro model was a ZB Custom which I bought from Larry Petree in Bakersfield about 1972, I don't know if Larry put the Day setup on it or if It came from the factory with that setup. Don't know if I could change now or not, but don't intend to at my age.

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richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 25 Jun 2005 10:59 am

This may be hogwash, but I have a theory that Emmons players started out with the Day setup, and Day players started out with the Emmons setup.
My reasoning is that because learning to play pedal steel is so difficult, beginning players are convinced that the grass is greener on the other side, and believe that all they have to do to become proficient is to switch their setup.
They switch their setup, and see no benefit.
There's no point switching back, so they carry on learning with their new setup.
R B

Richard Gonzales · Post by **Richard Gonzales** » 26 Jun 2005 9:03 am

Not true in my case, the grass is greener and I am staying with the green grass!

Lyle Clary · Post by **Lyle Clary** » 26 Jun 2005 6:36 pm

I was at one of Scotty's shows in St. Louis in mid 70's and Lloyd Green was there. Some one in the audience asked Lloyd why he did not lower his high E to E flat. He said to his ear the string never returns to true pitch after he lowers it. At the same show a musician who had perfect pitch hearing said Lloyd Green played more in tune than any other steel guitarist that he had ever heard, which made me believe that Lloyd may have perfect pitch too.

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1969 ZB Custom D10, BMI S10, 1981 Peavy Musician Mark III, 15 Inch Black Widow, custom enclosure

Davie Holland · Post by **Davie Holland** » 28 Jun 2005 11:40 am

Umm, havent MSA got it right then? Cause my E`s lower on my RIGHT knee right, and raise on RKL leaving my left foot to pedal as hard/fast as it can go.
My pedals are set up as A B C. from left to right.
Makes sense!

Gene H. Brown · Post by **Gene H. Brown** » 6 Jul 2005 10:15 pm

I personally think this is a very interesting thread. I have tuned to the Jimmy Day tuning for over 45 years, I got the tuning from the man himself when he came through Portland, Oregon and I thank him ever so much and miss his playing and wit also. I would just like to say that it's probably a personal preference wheather you play BE or JD setup or wheather you tune JI or ET also. But here's and interesting thing I would like to let everyone know about and maybe some of you already know this if you know my good friend Danny Snead from Arizona.
This man tunes and sets his guitar up the most unorthodox way from any steeler I have ever met.
Danny tunes his guitar to an open A just as you would tune yours with the A/B pedals down and then everything we raise, he lowers and everything we lower , he raises, and man what a picker, Danny has always amazed me how fast and accurate he is and a super guy to boot.
Just a quick story and you might get a little laugh out of this, hope so. I was sitting in the croud one night in the 60's when the Sneed Family was playing on stage at Taylor's Viewpoint club in Portland, Oregon and Danny saw me and ask me to sit in, I never knew ahead of time what tuning he used and I said sure, and of course he and his brothers all knew I didn't have a chance and as soon as I sit down behind the steel and before I had a chance to push some pedals and check it out, Danny's brother Les said "Crazy Arms in the key of "G", kick er off Gene", well let me tell you guys, that was the funniest thing you would ever want to hear or see and Danny was laying on the floor laughing so hard I thought he was going to die. It was a good one and fun too, if you see Danny Sneed, ask him about this and he'll get another laugh, sorry about taking up space guys.
Gene Brown

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If You Keep Pickin That Thing, It'll Never Heal!

David Wren · Post by **David Wren** » 7 Jul 2005 6:11 am

One picker left off of the list of "Day" players..... Jimmy(:>)<=|

I'm a real believer in "do what feels good"... I've changed my copedant several times whenever I find something I like better... one thing I have kept over the years is using my L. vertical lever to lower my E's to D#.... I don't see many other folks doing this, but man it just FEELS so smoothhhh when using with the A&B pedals down (my 2&3 pedals).

Great topic.

OH, and I have a real good reason for using the Emmons pedal setup.... and that would be Buddy.

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Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Session500; Hilton Pedal
www.ameechapman.com