The Steel Guitar Forum

Chris Ivey, agreed. Chris Lang has now started to sound like the high school students he referred to earlier.
This is where the brick wall is encountered, nothing more can be said to make him see reality.
He should join forces with other people who are impossible to talk to.
I say live and learn - that is if you are open to teaching.

On Mullen tone:-

I have a beautiful Mullen RP (black of course!) with Mullen original pickups and I can truthfully say the tone is heavenly!

I also have:-

Carter D10 with alumitones - heavenly!
Fessenden D12 with BL712s - heavenly!
Marlen D10 with original Marlen single-coils - heavenly!

But they are all subtly different.

Ned, you said it all with very few words.

Finally someone mentioned the tone of the mullen in the last post which is what this topic is all about. I guess next it will get off topic and someone will start talking about the protons, neutrons, and electrons that make up the guitar. if it's working why gripe about someone's desig. I guess it's some here that thought mullen should consult them about the physics so they could get that tone out of the guitar.

Wow!

A very interesting thread here. It started out as a tone deal, and then managed to get all the way into the design in general.

I believe we are all entitled to our own opinions on things, but I don't believe anyone should put a designer/builder or Co., down for their beliefs in the products they make. But it also leads into a question:

I'm wondering how the folks who love (any) brand steel of his/her choice, how it would affect them if they too, started using the bent cross shafts? Would it cause you to go to another brand that didn't use them? Especially since it's a proven fact that they do work, and work quite well from what I've been told.

I do love the looks of that new changer design, and I also like seeing bearings being built into places where I feel they are needed, in order to be as easy playing as possible.

I've also heard they are one of the easiest playing steels on the market today?

Are they the best? I'd not even try to answer that question, but I'd imagine they are right up there.

I will say this! I'd never given any thought into the cross shafts, and indeed it had me thinking so I put together a quite simple device to see the outcome. Yep! And, they'll turn to a pretty good degree without any binding. Way more than would ever be needed for pedal steel.

Now, if Mike would only send me one to try out then I could really do a more precise unbiased opinion on just how good they really are......

Possibly a Poll would have gotten better results on what people feel they'd turn away from, rather than discussing something that leads some to put a company down.

That's just not right to do. And this is coming from someone who can (otherwise) be a pretty crude dude at times, (myself). But putting a company down, well, that's not one of my things I do, nor do I feel it should be done, regardless of the opinion/s.

Don

Don says:

I believe we are all entitled to our own opinions on things, but I don't believe anyone should put a designer/builder or Co., down for their beliefs in the products they make.

Not putting the company down, just exposing the error in the design of the "bent crossrods".
Heck, if you think about it, the term "bent crossrods" should not even be used together, except in the case of malfunction, such as "I messed up my steel today", "yeah, I think I bent the crossrods!"

In fact I pointed out how I thought the changer was very innovative.

Although, it is my opinion that the changers progress was hindered by the "bent" crossrods.....

......anyway, the Mullen Guitars I tried in Dallas sounded excellent, bent cross-shafts and all.

I have been resisting getting into this thread, but I think I will state my opinions.

1. I own a G2. I bought it at St Louis in 2008 because of all the guitars I tried there that year, I like the way it sounded the best. It also plays smooth as butter and stays in tune.

2. I also own an Emmons push-pull. Great tone (sound) there as well. Plays smoothly, not as easily, stays in tune.

3. Totally differenty guitars. I like them both. Neither is for sale.

4. I am an engineer as well, licensed in several states. Engineering is not always (in fact seldom) about making something the absolutely most precisely technically correct. It is mostly about a technically competent design that reliably and safely accomplishes the task, for an affordable cost.

Why not post a video of those cross-shafts in action. They may work better than some people think? Seeing is believing.

Hearing is believing!

Nobody looks under a steel when it is being played...people are enthralled by the sound it makes and the emotion it projects. Steels are built to make sound, a special sound only they can make. How they look - and how they work - is immaterial, unless you actually own one. The sound is the reason for their very existence. Why? Because no other instrument can produce that unique sound.

It is bell-like highs, the richness and timbre of the mid-range, the deep growl of the bass notes, the clarity and separation of strings and much, much more. When summed, these and unknowable other subtle nuances constitute the mystical entity we call "tone".

If we spent more time actively seeking to improve our tone when playing rather than arguing about it with the ferocity of wizened old clerics arguing an abstruse point of canon law, we'd all be much, much better players!

Mullen tone is as good as it gets, IF the player is equal to the task of expressing the emotion of the song with his or her hands, knees, head and heart.

That's a big IF!

Brad,
Discussing the Excel would be wondering too far off topic. However, I do think the Excel is a fine guitar.

Bent bends:

Chris Ivey, agreed. Chris Lang has now started to sound like the high school students he referred to earlier.
This is where the brick wall is encountered, nothing more can be said to make him see reality.
He should join forces with other people who are impossible to talk to.
I say live and learn - that is if you are open to teaching.

Bottom line:
I'm not saying the G2 does not work per se, I'm saying that in my opinion, it cannot work(pull) as effeciently as a guitar with physically correct, straight crossrods! Simple as that.......


I was under the impression that Mullen guitars were all about precision and effeciency in their guitars..........

General Motors could build a nice, new Escalade with all the bells and whistles, yet put a small, inline 4 cylinder engine in it.

Would it work? Well, yes........

Is it ideal? Of course not!


No, IMHO, the bent crossrods ARE a design flaw, and I am not afraid to express my opinion about it. The folks at Mullen seem like really nice people, however, I thoroughly disagree with the use of those hideous, bent crossrods.

The changer is great, however, the crossrods are not correct, and I expected more out of the design of the G2.

Chris,
I believe this is a good example of "my mind's made up, don't confuse me with the facts". Of course, the bent cross shafts defy sound engineering principles but the guitar sounds "good" so who gives a rip.
The bent cross shaft were employed just so Mullen didn't have to build two different changers.

Erv says:

The bent cross shaft were employed just so Mullen didn't have to build two different changers.

Yeah Erv, I knew that was the reason Mullen went to the "bent" crossrods, but nobody wants to admit it!


BTW, where is the savings passed on to the customer?

I believe this is a good example of "my mind's made up, don't confuse me with the facts". Of course, the bent cross shafts defy sound engineering principles but the guitar sounds "good" so who gives a rip.

this is a good example of "my mind's made up, don't confuse me with the facts"

Indeed Erv, indeed.

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain"

Erv, sorry for going off topic but I really value your opinion and I wanted to catch you before you left the room..thanks for the reply

Arne Odegard wrote:Why not post a video of those cross-shafts in action. They may work better than some people think? Seeing is believing.

Hey Arne, good suggestion but will a grainy youtube vid really show the proof?
Besides, proof of sound engineering lies in the now likely 100's of these Mullen steels out there playing day to day, making sweet sounds and giving their owners not one lick of trouble.
It's all in the minds of a few people. They can't see anything but the "tried and true" method. Don't show me anything new! I won't accept it!

Like I said earlier, its like the story about the old woman and the train.

Or like when the first electric starters were put on tractors. The old farmers said : You'll never be able to make it last, it will rattle loose in no time! Well, look at tractors of today...

For seasoned steel players to call this "bent cross shaft" a design flaw..well I just throw up my hands in disbelief.

I have a Mullen G2 with the stock pick ups and they sound beautiful. I wouldn’t think of changing them. Very well-balanced for single coils, lovely singing midrange. Unfortunately, my playing will never do them justice. I have an old Marlen S10 that I love the sound of but I think my Mullen bests it..

I have owned 4 Mullen and tomorrow I take possession of my 5th. Everyone sounded different because of the pickup: George L's sounded different than the 705's which sounded different than the single coils. There are a tone of factors. They all sounded great to my ears.

All guitars sound different. Some better than others. Not counting sustain, you can make them
all sound good, real good, if you have the proper EQ capability. I've wasted a lot of time and money
buying amps, guitars and pickups looking for my tone. Every once and while I would find that magic
combination between the 3 and sound good most of the time. Sound great in this club/struggle in the next.

I finally discovered for myself what many have before me: YOU HAVE TO GET PRECISE CONTROL OF YOUR LOWER MIDS.
I love Fender amps and played for 20 years through a Vibrosonic Reverb. It has a mid control but it's so
touchy that finding good a setting is difficult or sometimes impossible. Although Peavey amps allow you to both sweep and cut/boost your mids I was never in love with them as I'm a tube guy. After years of struggling I started using pre-amps before my tube amp that had either parametric or graphic EQ sections or both. This changed my world. Now each guitar/pickup combo I have can be dialed in to sound really amazing at any club I go to. By finding the sweet spot in the low mids beforehand and saving to my pre-amp, I now only have to adjust my lows and highs depending on the room I'm in. I'm using a Kemper now and it has both parametric and graphic EQ sections. So, by using both I can make each guitar sound amazing using the tube amp profile I created using the Kemper.

I have lot of steel buddies struggling the way I did. They are all playing guitars direct to Tube amps and think the push/pull
is the only guitar that sounds good. They are mostly right when playing that way. I keep preaching that any guitar would sound great going into they Fender if they'd only try a pre-amp pedal. Get the Sesh 400 or the new Peavey pedal and be happy all the time! I have not actually tried either of those but the way they allow you to control your mids, they have to be better than not using them at all on a tube amp. Or just get a graphic EQ pedal with at least 8 bands. It will be the best tone investment you've ever made.

I know for sure I'm not the best player in the world, but I will say that I must be the luckiest player in the world. There are three reasons I say that:
1.) I've heard a ton of guitars that didn't really sound good to me.
2.) I never blamed a bad sound on the guitar.
3.) I've never played a guitar that I couldn't get a good sound out of.

Just lucky, I guess.
YMMV