routing two instruments to one volume pedal

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 18 Jul 2007 7:15 pm

When the cheapo Artisan lap steels came out a few years ago I bought two and bolted them together, so that I could leave it in the trunk of my car so I would always have one around if I needed a steel at short notice, and I wouldn't worry about them being stolen. I just spliced two leads together by cutting them and soldering. That creates a simple Y lead. I didn't need any special circuitry because you can just use the separate volume controls on the lap steels. It works perfectly. I've used the same lead on a Sho-Bud and a Multi-Kord simultaneously. Again, the individual volume controls take care of the difference in impedence.

Ernie Pollock · Post by **Ernie Pollock** » 19 Jul 2007 4:20 am

In one of the old Tom Bradshaw steel mags is a diagram of how to make just what your looking for, if you an solder & live near a radio shack you could make one. I made one years ago when I played guitar & steel with a group, worked great.

Ernie

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 19 Jul 2007 6:22 am

Alan, I would think what you are describing would result in the same issues that Mike described.

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 19 Jul 2007 6:58 am

OK, there's a reason for that. In many older guitars the volume controls were wired differently. The pickup went to the pot's wiper arm, and the output was taken from the end (outside lug) of the pot. (the other end is grounded)

This would allow two similarly wired guitars to be "Yed" together and still allow the volume pots to be turned off individually, without turning off both. (there is still some interaction)

That pot wiring is no longer considered to be good practice, though, because it leaves the output signal wire (guitar cable signal wire)above ground making the signal wire susceptible to noise pickup. Turn both volume controls off, and you potentially have a nice antenna, of sorts, connected to your amp's input.

Good wiring design will have the pickup signal going to the top of the pot, and the output taken from the wiper arm. When the volume control is turned off, the signal wire to the amp is grounded, preventing the "antenna" effect and keeping it quiet.

There are many ways to utilize electronic components. Some ways are better then others, but not necessarily "wrong". It always depends on the designer's intentions and intended usages.

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 19 Jul 2007 7:19 am

I think I'm gonna get the Boss LS-2 Line Selector and be done with it. That way, I can balance the volume of the two necks with the pedals volume control. I don't like turning down the volume knob on my instruments, kills the tone. Also, this LS-2 setup would leave me an effects loop and a splitter all in one pedal.

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 19 Jul 2007 9:24 am

That looks like a good choice, James. I like the versatility also.

Have fun!

Eric Jaeger · Post by **Eric Jaeger** » 19 Jul 2007 9:32 am

Lehle makes superb switchers. Also not cheap.

-eric

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 26 Jul 2007 5:34 pm

basilh wrote:Totally passive no signal loss, I use one all the time.
Set you levels on the guitars !!

Click Here

Well, I ordered on of these. Guess what, it doesn't work as advertised. It does exactly what is described here:

"Yep, that will work, but with limitations. The difference with a switch box is that when you switch off one of the instruments, it's out of the signal path...no interaction happens between the two pickups and their volume/tone pots. With the "Y" adapter you refer to, any changes on one instrument will interact with the other...meaning turning the volume control off on one will turn it off for the other also.

That's why the ABY box is important. It keeps the instruments independent of each other."

I plugged in two guitars and they are not independent. The volume and tone knobs affect one another. Can anyone recommend an ABY box and verify that the A and B channels are kept independent?

The above RFX ABY32 is nothing but one of these with lights:

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 27 Jul 2007 5:34 am

James, I did some searching with Google, and didn't find any footswitch box that allows either, or both, of two inputs to be switch on/off and be isolated from each other. The concept is that of a mixer that uses footswitches instead of volume controls.

I can't believe there isn't something like this already available, but I can't find it. It would be a simple transformer isolated, switch operated pedal, with two inputs and one, or two outputs. Not rocket science, for sure.

Maybe one of the 6 stringers has a solution. If not, this could be custom made with either active electronics (battery powered), or signal transformers. The problem would be the expense.

Of course, if the footswitches aren't necessary, a small mixer with mute buttons would be the way to go.

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 27 Jul 2007 6:21 am

It's amazing to me that there isn't an ABY box that allows independent tone adjustment of two instruments!

I'm considering the Boss LS-2 Line Selector again. It's a powered mixer.

I'm now wondering if the LS-2 will allow me to use two instruments and a tuner OUT. Can anyone verify that this is possible and that when used to route two instruments in "Y" fasion, the instruments' tone and volume controls can be used independently?

[/img]

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 27 Jul 2007 6:23 am

James, sorry my recommendation didn't work out for you, I omitted to say that I'm using "Buffer Amps" in line BEFORE the AB/Y box, that does eliminate interaction.

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 27 Jul 2007 6:25 am

Basil, no worries. It's all an experiment.

What's a "buffer amp"?

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 27 Jul 2007 6:31 am

A simple device that matches the guitar output to the amp input impedance more effectively. i.e. a 'Black Box' or a Hilton Volume pedal is a good example.

BTW I set the tone I want "On the Amp" and use an in-line graphic eq pedal to alter the tone of the OTHER guitar PRE AB/Y..

So, Out of the steel to the Hilton via a "loZ" box then to the AB/Y input, the tele goes to a Boss equalizer GE-7 and then to the AB/Y.
The Hilton IS a Buffer Amp and the Boss is effectively a Buffer Amp. NO INTERACTION in THIS instance.

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 27 Jul 2007 6:58 am

James, the LS-2 is a one-instrument device. It uses a guitar signal and provides 6 various functions utilizing the A and B outputs and the 2 effect loops...not what you want.

Here's a possible solution. Get a active preamp for each instrument, THEN "Y" the outputs together. The preamp could have gain and tone controls, depending on the one selected. But the outputs could then be run through an ABY switch (like the one you have) without any interaction. This might prove more versatile anyway.

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 27 Jul 2007 7:13 am

Mike Wheeler wrote:James, the LS-2 is a one-instrument device. It uses a guitar signal and provides 6 various functions utilizing the A and B outputs and the 2 effect loops...not what you want.

Here's a possible solution. Get a active preamp for each instrument, THEN "Y" the outputs together. The preamp could have gain and tone controls, depending on the one selected. But the outputs could then be run through an ABY switch (like the one you have) without any interaction. This might prove more versatile anyway.

Mike, thanks for all the advice. This method seems expensive. Since the theft of my dual amp/crazy effects rig, I'd like to minimize the components in my rig.

Several reviews of the LS-2 suggest that you can use it as the manner that I've described.

"The LS-2 also lets you select between two guitars to one amp, or you can set it to select up to 3 amps from one guitar."

"You can use the LS-2 as a 2 channel mixer. [i.e. two guitars playing at once.]"

etc.

There is an A+B mode that I thought would work. Instrument C(first lap steel) would be the dry signal. Instrument A(second lap steel) plugged into the return of loop A, would be mixed into the dry signal. The tuner would be receiving signal from the SEND of loop B.

I hope you are not correct and this works + sounds ok.

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 27 Jul 2007 7:25 am

That's interesting. They must be using the effect loops as inputs, because there's only one "official" input. The User Manual's block diagram may not be completely descriptive of it's capabilities. But, what the heck, you can always return it.

Harry Dietrich · Post by **Harry Dietrich** » 27 Jul 2007 12:23 pm

I used one of these for years for lap steel and 6 string guitar...plugged it right into my volume pedal. Worked like a charm. I got it at Radio Shack.

Harry

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 8 Aug 2007 7:53 am

Possible solution:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=151035

A review says the two inputs can be routed to one of the outputs and there are gain pots for each channel.

Marc Jenkins · Post by **Marc Jenkins** » 8 Aug 2007 8:52 am

James,

I'll suggest the Lehle switcher again. Fully isolated, level control, and built like a computer inside of a tank.

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 8 Aug 2007 9:11 am

Marc,

The Lehle doesn't have "Y" capability. A or B, but not both simultaneously.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 8 Aug 2007 9:37 am

The LS-2 is a very versatile pedal. I have two of them, cuz for a while they were very hard to find. Go to the Boss site and find the manual download.

Marc Jenkins · Post by **Marc Jenkins** » 8 Aug 2007 10:31 am

James,

My whoops. Have you considered the Radial switchbone? Not sure how this would work with 2 instruments...

Switchbone

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 15 Aug 2007 11:56 am

A-B schmaybe? Whichy switchy?

I'll settle all this for 'ya...

Just use a 2-channel amp.

Problem solved!

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 15 Aug 2007 12:26 pm

Right, i have a two channel amp. Now I need a volume pedal with two INPUTS and two OUTPUTS. Unless you don't use a volume pedal.

Max W. Thompson · Post by **Max W. Thompson** » 16 Aug 2007 11:33 am

They make stereo volume pedals...I have one I use for guitar. I think it is a Boss or something. A quick Googlin' will find you several.

The Steel Guitar Forum

routing two instruments to one volume pedal

Humm?